Posts by WontLeave

14

Conscience---Oh really?

by Terry in

whatever else you may think about jehovah's witnesses, what they think about their own "trained christian conscience" is an absolute.. the governing body feeds them what they should think and say and do; they obey.. conversely, what they must not think and say or do must be obeyed absolutely as well.

agreed?.

by internalizing these instructions, directions and taboos all jehovah's witnesses become tuned in to the collective authority of jehovah's "arrangement.".

WontLeave

In JWese, "conscience matter" is code for

We can't actually find any Scriptural support for our personal opinion. We've tried and tried, but no verse can be twisted so far without setting off the alarms of even the most retarded publishers. So, since the Bible remains totally silent on the subject (or actually supports a view diametrically opposed to ours), we'll only yell at you and publicly humiliate you, rather than throw you out.

As the real gods of JWs, the "Society" have taken it upon themselves to make up doctrine. Contrary to Scripture, not only do they rely on their own understandings, but they demand you rely on it too. Also, contrary to Scripture, not only do they feel perfectly qualified to direct their own steps, but demand to direct yours too. In addition, contrary to Scripture, you are ordered to put your faith in earthling man, in whom there is no salvation. But since there are still non-JWs left to be converted and a few JWs with functioning brain cells, they couch their self-idolatrous and blasphemous demands in noble-sounding double talk. Any JW who's ever been dragged into the back room knows, what the words say in the Watchtower and what they are intended to be interpreted as, may be totally opposite. When an article makes it very clear that a tattoo, beard, music, etc. are left to our consciences, what they really mean is

Now that we've told you what the Society God feels, you're supposed to voluntarily adopt our God's feelings. If you don't, you obviously lack a Watchtower- Bible-trained conscience and your mentally-diseased and demonic decision is trumped by our positions apointed by the Watchtower corporation Holy Spirit.

16

CORPORATION or CULT??

by paulnotsaul in

are witnesses just being good employees following corporate policy or is this a religious cult?

opinions welcomed.

peaceall paulnotsaul .

WontLeave

It depends on where you fit in the corporate structure. If you're high up, it's a business. If you're not, it's a cult. The cult part is only for the peons. Upper managment gets to speak in the name of God, so they have no boss, despite their claims to the contrary. How are they "submitting to Christ's lead", when they decide what Christ is telling them? They only submit to their own ideas, which is no different than the average person.

49

"Who created the intelligent creator?"

by mankkeli in

jw
friends

did the complexity of life arise spontaneously, or did it require a creator?christians believe that a creator is essential.

scientists believe that the idea of a "creator" is pure mythology, and that the complexity arose through natural processes like evolution.

you can actually answer this question yourself with a little logic.

WontLeave

I have actually been pondering this very question. I believe it is possible God himself doesn't know why he exists. After all, he did name himself "I Am" and instructed others to refer to him as YHWH (basically, "He Is"). He offered no further explanation. Is there a "multiverse"? Is "Jehovah" the God of this reality, while other realities have their own Gods? Does God even know the answer to that question? We can only speculate.

Many things in physics are counter-intuitive, yet seem to be true; e.g. relative speed of light. Occam's razor and pure logic can't be applied to everything. Some things just are, despite how much they make our brains hurt.

35

No Trespassing signs for JWs?

by Pams girl in

jw
friends

hi, so im in bed with food poisoning and bored.

went onto amazon and ordered a sign which reads-.

no canvassers.

WontLeave

I don't get it. I want them to knock on my door and they won't.

36

Are they going to keep lowering the bar to be appointed an MS or Elder???

by karter in

jw
friends

my mother told me of 2 young guys that have been appointed elders.. i could'nt belive it these guys have zero life experance and both their wifes walked out on them after a few years of marrage.. another one cooked his brain on drugs and his talks are painfull to listen to....all over the place and stumbles through them.. .

is it due to alot of young ones (60 to 70%) leaving and the pool to pick from is getting smaller so lowering the bar is the only way???

?.

WontLeave

Appointment has little to do with ability, despite claims in the Watchtower literature. It's a popularity contest and the result of being a drooling JW robot for a few years. With Internet access proliferation, intelligent, experienced elders are going to become more and more rare. Curiosity is a symptom of intelligence, while people who mindlessly do what they're told with no regard for "why" are usually pretty stupid. Gradually, truly spiritual, good-hearted men are being replaced with retarded Society suck-ups who crave power more than desire to serve.

The young are leaving in droves, because of free access to information, online. One way to keep them is to reward their loyalty to the cause with titles and positions. Many will take this bait and "sell their souls" for glory before men, despite knowing it's a crock. Unfortunately for the congregations, the character of men like this will cause much misery to those who regard these man-made titles and positions with awe and respect. This group of "organization worshipers" will gradually grow smaller, as it will mainly consist of the woefully ignorant, stupid, brainwashed, technologically-challenged, and/or those with ulterior motives for remaining in the cult.

140

Why So Many Young People Are Leaving The Watchtower

by Jeremy C in

i have been giving a lot of thought to the young people who are leaving the watchtower organization in recent years.

last night, i was reading the thread posted by jwfacts a while back in which he provided some statistics and graphs showing the rapidly declining growth in the watchtower.

one factor that was discussed at length was the high number of young people who do not stay in the organization.

WontLeave

Frustration doesn't occur until one realizes there are options. Kids raised in a cult believe that's "just how things are" and don't question it. However, anyone with Internet access can tear apart a cult, if they are actually interested in the truth about it. This is why the growth is among the uber poor and in third-world countries.

The Society does little to empower the young. Perhaps elders and MSs are getting younger in an attempt to bolster their "faith" through perceived rewards of title and position. But for the most part, young people in the JWs have ample time to destroy the hold of the GB and WT on them before any great emotional attachment can be made.

33

Do most JW's belive their own private version of the religon?

by highdose in

jw
friends

trying to work with jw's and their cd i notice that the harder i push their beliefs the more likely they are to hit back with some werid version of jw belives that exsists only in their own head.. its almost like they listen to the bs from the platform, run it through their head and then process it through their own filter and end up with a bastardised version of "the truth" that they feel comfortable with.. .

anyone else encountered this?

and whats your theory about it?.

WontLeave

Let's not forget that the Society is notorious for simultaneously playing every possible position on a subject. "We are/are not prophets" springs to mind. Depending on what most JWs want to believe, there's probably support for it, somewhere in the enormous collection of fallible, ever-changing human writings.

95

Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

by AllTimeJeff in

this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

awesome!

WontLeave

Trinitarians feel their accepting and believing the trinity is a rite of passage. In the same way charismatics believe, upon their baptism, they're supposed to flop around on the floor like a fish and babble like an idiot, they do. Trinitarians believe "holy spirit" reveals the trinity doctrine to them, so to take away that belief would be to take away their perception of an intimate relationship with the Almighty. They worked very hard at shoehorning the trinity into their brain and there's no way they'll easily let go of it. Once an emotional bond is made with a doctrine, no amount of logical discussion will budge it. They believe they see the trinity all through the Bible; hell, they'd see it in a grocery list if they felt they were supposed to.

Some religious people understand "faith" to mean "belief in the ridiculous and demonstrably false". This stance cannot be reasoned with, as it is unreasonable. The same mentality will believe in screams from Hell, Satan planted dinosaur fossils, glossolalia is "the tongue of angels", etc. Only an emotional event will wrest them free of belief in the ridiculous and that sort of thing is outside the scope of an online argument. A purely emotional attachment to a firmly-held belief can't be touched by logic. The apostle Paul's idea of defending faith and wrestling against unchristian ideals and a so-called "fundamentalist's" idea are entirely different things. Paul's version required using one's knowledge, logic, and mental abilities, whereas a fundamentalist's version requires shutting one's brain off, wallowing in ignorance, and militantly denying the obvious. To them, that's "faith".

18

Got some Street Encounter Questions for JWs?

by Vanderhoven7 in

jw
friends

WontLeave

If all "anointed" are the "faithful and discreet slave", why is it the Governing Body gets to teach and lead them, when Jesus said they wouldn't have teachers and leaders?

81

NEW RUMOR: WT ALLOWS BIRTHDAYS

by J.R.R.Watchtower in

i've just read at a spanish forum for ex-jw that the wt has cooked a new light article series about social celebrations, including birthdays and aniversaries.

according to a member of this forum 'in short' the wt will let witnesses to decide by 'their bible trained conscience' either they celebrate birthdays or not.

is this rumor based in some real facts or it's just bullshit?.

WontLeave

It's obvious the Watchtower grasped at straws to ban birthdays. "On the 2 birthdays mentioned in the Bible, bad things happened." That's it? That's all you've got? The 2 fat men mentioned in the Bible (Eli and Eglon) were killed; one by God and one for God. Why does Scripture mention them being fat, if not to make a point about it? Can't ban obesity, because a lot of poor, trashy, stupid people are fat. Look around Wal-Mart and you'll see the same quality people as the average Kingdom Hall. Look around the ghetto, barrio, and trailer park and you'll see a lot of fat people; especially the women. This is where more and more JWs are coming from. Everybody knows the preaching would cease if it wasn't for JW women. "The army of large women", or something like that.