Posts by WontLeave

90

I called the KH- "the Memorial is tomorrow night, right?

by moshe in

i called just before noon today- an elder promptly answered the phone.

i told him, " uh, memorial is tomorrow night, right?".

passover starts tomorrow night, after sundown!

WontLeave

the Passover, which was celebrated on Nisan 14

Actually, the lamb was slaughtered on Nisan 14th and the actual Passover was eaten after sundown, on the 15th. We've been through this. Read Exodus chapter 12, like everybody else who understands when Passover occurred. Stop reading Watchtowers and read the Bible.

Recall that Jesus died somewhere around "the ninth hour" (Matthew 27:46) on Nisan 14, so since Mark 14:17 says it was "evening," obviously refers to the evening of Nisan 14 since a Jewish day ran from sundown to sundown.

Actually, Jesus died late in the day on Passover, the 15th. Stop reading everything through Watchtower-tinted glasses. Put down the literature, because it's sewing seeds in your mind and making you see things that are not there.

You seem to have a disdain for truth

I believe you're confusing actual truth with Watchtower Truth tm . Stop accumulating teachers for yourself via the CD-ROM. The Governing Body can't save you, so stop putting your faith in them. Jesus is the antitype of Moses; not them. The greater Moses, Jesus, left them alone for a few minutes and they made a golden calf, which you're currently bowing down to. I am pleading with you to stop idolizing the "organization"; and denying isn't the same as stopping.

90

I called the KH- "the Memorial is tomorrow night, right?

by moshe in

i called just before noon today- an elder promptly answered the phone.

i told him, " uh, memorial is tomorrow night, right?".

passover starts tomorrow night, after sundown!

WontLeave

Alright, don't everybody gang up on Eggie. He is a brother in Christ. Belittling someone because they don't believe exactly the same thing is exactly why most of us are here. Granted, his worship of the Society instead of God is a bit frustrating, but if we don't have love we "become a sounding [piece of] brass or a clashing cymbal." We are trying to win our brother and not attack him.

His attention to detail could be a valuable tool for teaching, reproving, and setting things straight. If we can direct him to Scripture and get his nose out of the Watchtower CD-ROM, Eggie would be a force to be reckoned with for Christ. Right now, he's just a little too wrapped up in the intricacies of Watchtower milk and he needs some help graduating to the solid food of the Bible.

I'm sure I have plenty of beliefs that not everybody here would agree with. Many of them may be totally wrong. Some of the things I believe that many of you do agree with may be totally wrong. The point is, we're free to believe and express them - theoretically - without punitive measures. I generally try to avoid being flip and condescending when countering a point of view, but occasionally I succumb to human tendencies and make a mean dig. I have to pummel my body and lead it as a slave, in that respect.

90

I called the KH- "the Memorial is tomorrow night, right?

by moshe in

i called just before noon today- an elder promptly answered the phone.

i told him, " uh, memorial is tomorrow night, right?".

passover starts tomorrow night, after sundown!

WontLeave

Jewish tradition dictates when they observe the Passover

Okay, usually I let your stuff go by, because you're a GB robot and I figure you're about as easy to get out of your rut as dislodging the Pope from Catholicism. But this is so false, it's ridiculous. Actually, the Bible dictates when Passover is observed.

The sheep should prove to be sound, a male, a year old, for YOU. YOU may pick from the young rams or from the goats. And it must continue under safeguard by YOU until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole congregation of the assembly of Israel must slaughter it between the two evenings. And they must take some of the blood and splash it upon the two doorposts and the upper part of the doorway belonging to the houses in which they will eat it. “‘And they must eat the flesh on this night. - Exo 12:5-8

The lamb is slaughtered on the 14th day of the month (originally "Aviv", but now known as "Nisan"). Since the lamb was eaten at night, that would be the next Jewish day, which changes at sundown. This puts us at Nisan 15th. This is just another place where Witnesses have to pick a fight with everybody about everything, because they're elitists and separatists.

Now on the first day of unfermented cakes, when they customarily sacrificed the passover [victim], his disciples said to him: “Where do you want us to go and prepare for you to eat the passover? - Mark 14:12

I think we can all agree this is Nisan 14th. This is the day God told Israel to slaughter the passover lamb.

After evening had fallen he came with the twelve. - Mark 14:17

This would be the next Jewish day, because it was now evening; Nisan 15 - Passover. Everybody gets it except the Governing Body.

Don't even start with the "between the two evenings" being from sundown to night, either. That is a load of crap and everybody knows it. If we're going to allow people to tell us what God meant to say, then we might as well all believe in Hellfire, Trinity, and Transubstantiation just because someone told us to.

By the way, huge Watchtower articles doesn't make them right. It just makes them bombastic.

37

Am I mistaken or are these stupid mistakes on watchtower.org?

by WontLeave in

am i the only one who notices a couple of problems with this?.

first of all, passover is on 15 nisan, not 14.. the sheep should prove to be sound, a male, a year old, for you.

you may pick from the young rams or from the goats.

WontLeave

It's on watchtower.org, the official website of Jehovah's Witnesses. The very top link - "Reliving Jesus’ Last Days on Earth ", with a picture of Jesus next to it. Just scroll down to Nisan 14.

37

Am I mistaken or are these stupid mistakes on watchtower.org?

by WontLeave in

am i the only one who notices a couple of problems with this?.

first of all, passover is on 15 nisan, not 14.. the sheep should prove to be sound, a male, a year old, for you.

you may pick from the young rams or from the goats.

WontLeave

HE HAD NOT YET SINNED

Actually, if you look a few verses ahead, Judas had already made the arrangements to betray Jesus.

Then one of the twelve, the one called Judas Is·car′i·ot, went to the chief priests and said: “What will YOU give me to betray him to YOU?” They stipulated to him thirty silver pieces. So from then on he kept seeking a good opportunity to betray him. - Mat 26:14-16

And Judas Is·car′i·ot, one of the twelve, went off to the chief priests in order to betray him to them. When they heard it, they rejoiced and promised to give him silver money. So he began seeking how to betray him conveniently. - Mark 14:10-11

Now the festival of the unfermented cakes, the so-called Passover, was getting near. Also, the chief priests and the scribes were seeking the effective way for them to get rid of him, for they were in fear of the people. But Satan entered into Judas, the one called Is·car′i·ot, who was numbered among the twelve; and he went off and talked with the chief priests and [temple] captains about the effective way to betray him to them. Well, they rejoiced and agreed to give him silver money. So he consented, and he began to seek a good opportunity to betray him to them without a crowd around. - Luke 22:1-6

In case you're trying to figure out how to work the Watchtower mistakes into conversation with a JW who comes to your door, the website is on the invitations. You can just say you went to the website after receiving one and had some questions. Since - being a Christian and in light of the season - you were reading the Bible about the last days of Christ on earth, you noticed some things didn't match what was online. This way you won't tip them off that you "know too much" and are an "opposer" or "apostate". Keep their wall down and keep them listening. Maybe, just maybe, they'll allow the Bible to speak to them without the taint of Watchtower spin.

37

Am I mistaken or are these stupid mistakes on watchtower.org?

by WontLeave in

am i the only one who notices a couple of problems with this?.

first of all, passover is on 15 nisan, not 14.. the sheep should prove to be sound, a male, a year old, for you.

you may pick from the young rams or from the goats.

WontLeave

A couple of JWs just stopped by. How convenient. I had them hold on a minute while I grabbed my invitation and Bible. I asked them why they're having it tonight, when it's only Palm Sunday and not Easter Sunday (playing dumb). I let them get themselves nice and wrapped up in the Nisan 14th thing. I had to bite my tongue while they "educated" me about how a Jewish day and lunar calendar work. Then I asked what day it is right now, on the Jewish calendar and they said "The 13th." And the trap was sprung.

I showed them from Exodus that the lamb/kid was slaughtered on the 14th and eaten that night (next Jewish day). I showed them in the Gospels the apostles were wandering around looking for a place to hold Passover at the time the animal would have been slaughtered, placing that squarely on the 14th. Then, after sundown, they had the Passover, clearly making it Nisan 15th.

The waffling, excuses, pathetic attempts to make it seem complicated were amusing. I told them the Jews were having Passover tomorrow night and if they needed to know the day, all they had to do was ask them.

All-in-all, they were pretty nice, so I kept it pleasant. I am amassing a little JW ministry with the ones who come knocking. I'm always willing to engage in anyone who knocks on my door and wants to talk about the Bible. Mormons and Witnesses are easy, because they come to me. Perhaps the Holy Spirit sent these ones to my door today. I might be anointed, so maybe I should go have some free wine and nasty bread.

23

dos it really matter if someone drinks the wine and eats the crackers??!

by highdose in

jw
friends

a big part of every memorial i ever went to was given to drumming it home that unless you were anoited you couldn't partake.

and everyone would be watching the "strangers" as their turn came, ripples of horror would go round the congregation if they dared to nibble or sip(!).

... but seriously what is the problem?

WontLeave

that group got filled way back in the first century for sure

This is assuming the JW teaching that all 1st-Century Christians were anointed. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth." If everybody there who accepted him had to go to Heaven, who was he talking to? The JWs telling God they were anointed, then closing the door in 1935, to later reopen it... That's some serious arrogance. We don't tell God whether we're anointed; he tells us.

37

Am I mistaken or are these stupid mistakes on watchtower.org?

by WontLeave in

am i the only one who notices a couple of problems with this?.

first of all, passover is on 15 nisan, not 14.. the sheep should prove to be sound, a male, a year old, for you.

you may pick from the young rams or from the goats.

WontLeave

Am I the only one who notices a couple of problems with this?

First of all, Passover is on 15 Nisan, not 14.

The sheep should prove to be sound, a male, a year old, for YOU. YOU may pick from the young rams or from the goats. And it must continue under safeguard by YOU until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole congregation of the assembly of Israel must slaughter it between the two evenings. And they must take some of the blood and splash it upon the two doorposts and the upper part of the doorway belonging to the houses in which they will eat it. “‘And they must eat the flesh on this night. - Exo 12:5-8

The Jewish day is from sundown to sundown. The lamb is to be slaughtered on the 14th and eaten "this night", which would be after sundown, or the 15th. Passover this year starts on Tuesday (Monday after sundown) and Jehovah's Witnesses are celebrating the Memorial on Sunday after sundown (14 Nisan) - a full day before Passover.

Secondly, there is no scriptural reason to believe Judas had left before the bread and wine were eaten.

Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “This means my body which is to be given in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” Also, the cup in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in YOUR behalf. “But, look! the hand of my betrayer is with me at the table. - Luke 22:19-21

he, knowing that the Father had given all things into [his] hands and that he came forth from God and was going to God, got up from the evening meal and laid aside his outer garments. And, taking a towel, he girded himself. - John 13:3-4

Therefore, after he received the morsel, he [Judas] went out immediately. And it was night. - John 13:30

Matthew and Mark discuss the Last Supper, but do not mention Judas leaving before the bread and wine are passed. Since 2 of the Gospels make it clear that Judas was present during the passing of bread and wine, the matter should be considered established. Notice, how the Watchtower site jumps from Gospel to Gospel to establish their timeline, taking events out of context and piecing them together as they see fit .

How are mistakes this seemingly simple made by people who are supposed to be "Jehovah’s spirit-directed organization" and "his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come"? The sad part is, they are so arrogant and so self-absorbed, if these points are brought to their attention, they will ignore them and turn you in to your local elders. To add insult to injury they may actually reply, sending a condescending copy-and-paste letter back to you that would insult the intelligence of a goldfish. Of course, this letter would only reference their own writings and carefully avoid any scriptural references.

27

For those attending tomorrow.....

by cantleave in

jw
friends

we salute you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shci6ve-ple.

WontLeave

I just posted the scriptures in another thread, so I'll avoid reposting the exact thing, but the JW Memorial is on the wrong day. It should be on the 15 th of Nisan - Passover - not the 14 th .

16

Question regarding the memorial

by grewupjw1969 in

although i was raised a jw, i have never understood why they celebrated the memorial on a different day than easter.

can someone explain?.

grewupjw.

WontLeave

Please disregard my previous post. Hearing year after year "Nisan 14", I assumed that to be correct. How can they get a detail wrong, when they make such a big deal about it? This is why I refuse to read the literature: It plants seeds in your head that can linger for years.

The sheep should prove to be sound, a male, a year old, for YOU. YOU may pick from the young rams or from the goats. And it must continue under safeguard by YOU until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole congregation of the assembly of Israel must slaughter it between the two evenings. And they must take some of the blood and splash it upon the two doorposts and the upper part of the doorway belonging to the houses in which they will eat it. “‘And they must eat the flesh on this night. - Exo 12:5-8

Now on the first day of unfermented cakes, when they customarily sacrificed the passover [victim], his disciples said to him: “Where do you want us to go and prepare for you to eat the passover?” - Mark 14:12

After evening had fallen he came with the twelve. Mark 14:17

Since Jewish days were sundown to sundown, it would appear the Passover lamb would actually be slaughtered the day before Jesus died. This would mean Jesus did partake of the Passover meal on Nisan 15, not 14. I'm not really sure why the Society chooses the previous day. Clearly, the Memorial should be on Passover: Nisan 15, not Nisan 14.