Interesting combo.
Start by "Impeaching Joe!"
Vanderhoven7
JoinedPosts by Vanderhoven7
-
-
-
-
122
1995 generation change
by Gorb innow, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.
it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.
with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.
-
-
Vanderhoven7
PROGRESSIVE WATCHTOWER LIGHT (from 1968-present) ON “THIS GENERATION”
In 1968 the youngest of the 1914 generation were 15 years old.
"Jesus was obviously speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding what took place when the 'last days' began. ... Even if we presume that youngsters 15 years of age would be perceptive enough to realize the import of what happened in 1914, it would still make the youngest of 'this generation' nearly 70 years old today." (Awake! Oct 8, 1968 p13)
In 1978 the youngest of the 1914 generation were clearly not babies
"Thus, when it comes to the application in our time, the "generation" logically would not apply to babies born during World War I. It applies to Christ's followers and others who were able to observe that war and the other things that have occurred in fulfillment of Jesus' composite "sign."" (Watchtower Oct 1, 1978 p31)
In 1980 the youngest of the 1914 generation were revised to 10 year olds.
"As indicated by an article on page 56 of U.S. News & World Report of January 14, 1980, "If you assume that 10 is the age at which an event creates a lasting impression on a person's memory," then there are today more than 13 million Americans who have a "recollection of World War I."" (Watchtower Oct 15, 1980 p31)
In 1984 the youngest of the 1914 generation were reduced to babies.
"If Jesus used "generation" in that sense and we apply it to 1914, then the babies of that generation are now 70 years old or older. And others alive in 1914 are in their 80's or 90's, a few even having reached a hundred. There are still many millions of that generation alive." (Watchtower May 15, 1984 p5)
In 1988 the youngest were babies that were born in 1914
"Likewise today, most of the generation of 1914 has passed away. However, there are still millions on earth who were born in that year or prior to it." (Watchtower April 8, 1988 p14)
In 1995 age no longer was a factor in determining the 1914 generation
“Rather than provide a rule for measuring time, the term “generation” as used by Jesus refers principally to contemporary people of a certain historical period, with their identifying characteristics.” – Watchtower Nov 1, 1995, p.20.
Finally in 2010 the 1914 generation overlaps.
“How, then, are we to understand Jesus’ words about “this generation”? He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation. That generation had a beginning, and it surely will have an end. The fulfillment of the various features of the sign clearly indicate that the tribulation must be near. By maintaining your sense of urgency and keeping on the watch, you show that you are keeping up with advancing light and following the leadings of holy spirit.—Mark 13:37.“ Watchtower 04/15, 2010 Article: Holy Spirit’s Role in the Outworking of Jehovah’s Purpose
-
12
What do you think about Nehemia Gordon theory regarding "Yehovah" as God's name pronunciation that never got completely lost?
by psyco innehemia gordon, in his book "shattering the conspiracy of silence", argues that "yehovah" is god's name pronunciation and it has never got completely lost, giving a linguistic explanation.
what do you think about that?.
-
-
Vanderhoven7
If the writers of the Bible were inspired, the Spirit left us in the dark guessing for a reason. Must be the plan then, perhaps because knowing how to pronounce the name is not crucial to knowing God...and perhaps God wanted another name to have preeminence.
-
7
What does the fact that WT baptism numbers are still high in the pandemic tell us?
by Vanderhoven7 ini thought jiles grey response to this question was interesting:.
"i think that it demonstrates just how ineffective the jehovah’s witnesses’ door to door evangelising is.. in 2019 there were 303,866 people baptised.
this was during a year when the preaching work was in full swing.. in 2020 there were 241,994 people baptised.
-
-
Vanderhoven7
I thought Jiles Grey response to this question was interesting:
"I think that it demonstrates just how ineffective the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ door to door evangelising is.
In 2019 there were 303,866 people baptised. This was during a year when the preaching work was in full swing.
In 2020 there were 241,994 people baptised. This was during a year when Covid halted much of the preaching work.
The fact that there was only a difference of -61,872 new converts indicates just how many of the newly dedicated people are in-house, many of them being children of JWs who have been brought up in the religion. It would be very interesting to see the data on the average age of the baptismal candidates.
Considering that the numbers of those who were baptised last year are considerably less than the 297,872 people who were baptised in a single year in the mid 70s (when the number of publishers was only around 1.5 million, compared to over 8 million in 2019/20), last year’s numbers, and even those of 2019, are not at all encouraging.
The two decades from the year 2000 has shown that the growth of the Jehovah’s Witnesses has reduced dramatically, from 11.92% during the years 1996 to 2000, down to a mere 3.59% during the years of 2016 to 2020.
Like most religions, the growth of the Jehovah’s Witnesses has been stagnating in recent years and last year showed the first reduction in membership since 1978."
-
12
It takes a while, but eventually a person finds his way out.
by pistolpete init hard to believe------you don't have the truth.. sometimes, for many----it takes half of your life -- or more---to figure it out.
it was like swimming upstream with lead boots pulling you back in.
and the closer you got to the "real" truth----the further away you strayed from your intimate group.
-
-
Vanderhoven7
Dear Jes,
Thank you for sharing your struggle with us. As a Christian Bible believer I am hoping your faith in God will be strengthened as your faith in men and their claims diminish. Men will abandon and shun you if you DA yourself. That is to be expected. If you decide to fade you may find some help from a poster on this forum who wrote the following on Escaping From JW Land.
“I am Physically In Mentally Out (PIMO) and for years have struggled with how to break free from JW Land since it has defined my whole life. Over time, I have determined you need to approach it somewhat like a large project and here is my summary project plan that some may find useful when "the truth about the truth" becomes a reality in your life.
- TAKE TIME TO PROCESS THIS: Don't make any quick decisions. Take a breath, relax and promise yourself you will not act rashly or lash out in any way. Acting quickly or rashly will likely cause more problems than be helpful. Try to keep anger, emotion and action on-hold as you process.
- EDUCATE YOURSELF/GET HELP: Many, many existing JWs are in your same situation (like me). Read the Wiki here, read JWFacts and other sites suggested by ones here. Consider registering a generic anonymous email address so that you can logon to Reddit to benefit from all the help here. The more knowledgeable you are on how to proceed once you have TTATT - then the better life you can have as you execute a plan.
- EMBRACE YOUR CHALLENGE: If you are realizing TTATT, then this is a fight for your life!!! Your family and friends likely have not embraced TTATT. You need to understand, this is going to be hard. You may need to be fake and play games to make things manageable in your life. You will need to work hard to successfully adjust your life with your desire to extract yourself from JW Land - in some cases it can take years to do this.
- SEE THE BIG PICTURE: Your goal is to escape JW Land and have a good life. So you likely need to live with some difficult circumstances now to reach that goal. Try to leave too fast before you are prepared for success can leave you in a very difficult place. As opposed to confronting and trying to awaken your friends/family - consider being more passive and simply changing the subject or agreeing with what JWs in your life say. Confronting friends/family about TTATT can backfire in a major way and make your life more difficult.
- MAKE A PLAN/GET SUPPORT: You are not alone. Many, many JWs are struggling with TTATT. Start to do some of the things in this plan and you may find it is easier than you thought. People here will help you plan and will support you. Do not be afraid to ask for help. There is a wealth of knowledge on this site, far too much to include in a post like this.
- VALUE YOURSELF: Embrace that you need to value and focus on yourself (and your immediate family). If you are younger, get an education and seek out the best employment you can find. If you are an adult, save your money and seek out the best financial situation possible. Take care of your health. Get a job with healthcare coverage. It takes money to live! JW Land is not going to save you when you are broke and 80 years old (I know this since my parents are in this situation). You need a measure of financial security and the org will never help you with that.
- DO NOT GET BAPTIZED: Stall, delay, defer, cry, kick, scream, etc. Within reason, do anything you can to avoid getting baptized. Being baptized makes escaping more complicated and makes future family relationships more difficult. If you are not baptized then you immediately escape many other "special privileges" that make it harder to escape. This likely only applies to younger ones on this forum - but should be followed by anyone not yet baptized.
- STOP DONATING: Pure and simple - stop giving money to JW Land. Every dollar you give to JW Land perpetuates the lies and allows the deceptions to continue. Every dollar you give means less financial security for you and your family. You likely need the money and do not have it to give away. This is one of the fastest ways to impact the org.
- STOP VOLUNTEERING: Say NO! to mowing the Kingdom Hall (KH) lawn, No! to quick builds, No! to cleaning the KH, No! to maintenance and the list goes on. It may be hard the first time you tell a brother that is trying to guilt you into providing free labor.... but it gets easier each and every time. Learn to say NO....the brothers and sisters cannot do anything to you if you just say NO.
- STEP DOWN: If you enjoy a "special privilege" such as CO, Bethelite, Elder, MS, Pioneer, etc....... then consider a plan to "stop serving" or "step down". JW Land cannot survive without huge numbers of volunteers to enforce the rules and regulations of the JW way of life. Every person that leaves a "special assignment" makes it that much more difficult to preserve JW Land structures. It takes courage to do this and can be scary. However, once you have TTATT there is one main way to stop the lies, deceptions and endless peer pressure - simply stop supporting an organizational structure that harms people. Those with "special privileges in the truth" enable the JW organization to continue harming people.
- MAKE GOOD NON-JW FRIENDS: Seek out friendships with people that can help you succeed in life. Escaping JW Land is just a first step, you ultimately want a good life. Having friends that want this too will be a HUGE help! Being smart/educated, being a person with a good job/income, being a person that values and respects others (and loves both Father and Son) These are but a few qualities to look for in friends.
- GET A JOB: Having money to survive is critical to successfully leaving JW Land. The sooner you learn to work and save money the better. I learned to work and get paid at a young age - you can too. I cannot say this too much - if you do not have enough money - life is going to tough as you try to leave JW Land. Making good friends can also help in this area.
- MOVE OUT/GET A ROOM MATE: See point above about making good friends. Being able to move out and share expenses can be an enormous benefit to your overall plan with good friends.
- FADE AWAY: Simply put, do less and less with anything related to being a JW. Fading is very specific to your situation. How to do it right is different for everyone. Ask for help on your specific situation and you will get a multitude of ideas that may apply."
God bless,
Vanderhoven
-
53
Those members who passed away
by Gorb inwho of those passed away jwd/jwn members, do we think of??.
oompah and the lady from australia, are there more??.
g..
-
-
Vanderhoven7
Jim Penton's heart is still ticking.
-
16
Is the Bible of extraterrestrial origin?
by Vanderhoven7 inhighly illuminating video.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkhdyhmolmw.
i thought these bible cryptologists were all nuts.
this guy changed my mind..
-
-
Vanderhoven7
Here is part Ii for those interested.
-
14
The Truth about the Truth
by Iamallcool inif jw wants to know the truth about the truth, what will you talk about first?
-
-
Vanderhoven7
Does she know anything about the characteristics of Christian cults?
One is that they paint all other churches with the same ugly brush.
-
14
The Truth about the Truth
by Iamallcool inif jw wants to know the truth about the truth, what will you talk about first?
-
-
Vanderhoven7
One of the important truths I would like to elicit from JWs is the fact that their faith is in men rather than the Bible.
QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW WITNESSES VIEW THE BIBLE
How important is truth to you?
If you didn't have the truth, would you want to know it?
1. How much faith do you have in the Bible? (complete?)
2. Do you view the scriptures the same way the Apostle Paul did? (II Tim.3:15, 16)
3. Do you believe your religion is clearly biblical?
4. Could someone studying the Bible alone come up with exactly what you believe?
5. Do you believe that someone who only has the Bible can read it and be saved?
6. What role does the Bible actually play in determining your religious beliefs?
7. Would you say that your faith is primarily in the Bible or is it primarily in your religious leaders (i.e.; those taking the lead) and their interpretations of the Bible?
8. Could there be a discrepancy between what your religion teaches and what the Bible teaches? Has there ever been?
9. Does new light or doctrinal modifications made by your religious leaders act as a corrective to change what you believe the Bible teaches?
10. Could the Bible ever act as a corrective to change your beliefs contrary to what your religions leaders teach?
11. If a person puts his complete trust in a Bible scholar, with an “if he says it, I believe it” attitude, would his faith ultimately be in the Bible or the scholar?
12. If you somehow lost faith in your religion's primary leadership, would you lose your faith in God and the Bible?
-
20
Resurrection after a death sentence in the OT?
by EdenOne ini have a question for those more versed in biblical history than i. .
knowing that a belief in a resurrection on messianic times was a later jewish belief ... but still ... did the ot jews believe that someone served a capital punishment / death sentence would be elegible for future resurrection?.
meaning: when coding the torah, did its writers intended that the capital punishment also be understood as an obliteration for all eternity?.
-
-
Vanderhoven7
Paul was talking about death to the flesh in Romans 6; that we are dead to sin when alive to God.
If sin were atoned for by man's physical death, there would be no further consequences, and no further judgment. But Jesus said, by our words men will be absolved or condemned. The resurrection of the just is to life, the resurrection of the unjust is to judgment.