Posts by Vanderhoven7

Let me suggest that you don't need a new religion. You don't need any religion. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life!" Christianity is a grace relationship with a person. He who has the Son has life. I John 5:10-13

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JULY 15TH STUDY EDITION :"If ever that evil slave..." page 24

by raymond frantz in

box on page 24 of the july 15th titled :"if ever the evil slave....".

jesus has placed the weightiest of responsibilities on the faithful and discreet slave-namely,overseeing the domestics and giving out spiritual food atthe proper time.

jesus knew that those with greater responsibility have greater accountability.

Vanderhoven7

Brandon Harper answers the question

How do Jehovah's Witnesses members know the Governing Body has not become the 'evil slave'?

Never once, in the entire history of Jehovah’s Witnesses or the International Bible Students Association, has there ever been any period during which they legitimately represented any deity’s interests on Earth. The Governing Body cannot possibly have become ‘the evil slave’ simply because that implies it ever worked in any capacity other than in the interests of evil.

From the very first issue of Zion’s Watch Tower, the publications from the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc. and then from the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. have contained abundant evidence that the authors have not been willing to “wait on Jehovah” but have instead run ahead, haughtily offering as “the truth” and as “unmistakable testimony” from the Scriptures what were, in fact, 100% fallible and incorrect false hopes.

The publications criticize other religions for doing this same thing, citing Genesis 40:8 as the reason why these religions get their prophetic predictions so wrong. The Governing Body claims they are examining the signs and seeking to determine in what ways prophecies are going to be fulfilled: that is divination.

There is only evil from that organization and from its leadership. Anyone who remains associated to it will be supporting those who bind up heavy loads upon others (“wait on Jehovah”) that they themselves are haughtily and hypocritically unwilling to budge even with their little fingers.

The fruit of false prophets is predictions that do not come true. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22; Matthew 7:15-20) When Jehovah’s Witnesses actively ignore the mountainous history of their religion’s false predictions from false prophets, or pretend that such predictions are not example of prophecies from divination rather than interpretations received from Jehovah, they demonstrate plainly that they trust the Governing Body more than they trust the Bible. (Ezekiel 13)

They are an evil organization still actively bearing the poisonous fruit of false prophets into the world.

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Verifying The Claim The IBSA ,not JW ,were approved by Jehovah God / Christ Jesus as God`s Chosen People in 1919 ??

by smiddy3 in

how do they verify this claim,if they can and how easy do we debunk this claim if we can ?.

what is needed to verify a claim made by anyone or an organization ?.

i`m interested in what you have to say about this ..

Vanderhoven7

How do they know any of the invisible events of 1874, 1881, 1914, 1918, 1919 1922- 1926 took place. Because that is what Watchtower told them.

For starters, there are no dates in the Bible.

Everything is established by eisegesis alone. The first resurrection began in the spring of 1918 and Christ rejected all of Christendom in the fall of 1918, and chose the directors of the WBTS at Brooklyn headquarters in 1919, is all extra-biblical, i.e., WTS mythology forming the basis for WT authority.

You can make the Bible say anything you want to if you can add your own church history onto the scriptures and call it Bible-based.

The most humorous example of this kind of interpretive abuse is found in the sounding of the trumpets in Revelation 8-11. When the first trumpet sounded, a third of earth's trees and grass burn up Rev.8:1-7 because Rutherford gave a talk at a convention in Ohio in 1922.

The Book of Revelation is all about them because they so.

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Watchtower LOSES copyright court case - humiliated!

by BoogerMan in

the org has been exposed for abusing dmca laws to hunt down and punish anonymous faders/jw's.. https://pubcit.typepad.com/clpblog/2022/05/watch-tower-drops-its-effort-to-identify-a-dissident-blogger-based-on-spurious-copyright-claims.html.

if you talk to a jw, tell them how wisely the "faithful slave is looking after the masters belongings.

" (matt.

Vanderhoven7

Here is a sample of Kevin's creativity

https://youtu.be/cCJUfs96KGA

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Hello Everyone

by JohnPaul in

jw
friends

hi everyone i would like to say hello to everyone,.

i just started attending kingdom hall about a month ago now and am doing bible study with a brother..

Vanderhoven7

Welcome to the Forum JohnPaul, (II)

He was an interesting Pope by the way.

Here is a short video which I think fairly sums up what life is like for Jehovah's Witnesses.

Worth a watch in my books.

https://youtu.be/ppYNYyNb_ak

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How To Talk About Interpretation With Jehovah's Witnesses.

by Vanderhoven7 in

this from my book: good news for jehovah's witnesses.

before we discuss any doctrinal issues, i would like to distinguish between what i believe is proper versus improper interpretive practice.... so you know what i can accept as biblical and what i can't accept.. basic guidelines for validating doctrinal claims`).

i. there must be at least one scriptural reference that can be cited for support of any doctrinal claim or position.. ii.

Vanderhoven7

The article is excellent. Thanks for sharing it Riblah

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How To Talk About Interpretation With Jehovah's Witnesses.

by Vanderhoven7 in

this from my book: good news for jehovah's witnesses.

before we discuss any doctrinal issues, i would like to distinguish between what i believe is proper versus improper interpretive practice.... so you know what i can accept as biblical and what i can't accept.. basic guidelines for validating doctrinal claims`).

i. there must be at least one scriptural reference that can be cited for support of any doctrinal claim or position.. ii.

Vanderhoven7

Thanks for your encouragement Blondie. From there in, "Good News... " I go to the the invisible eschatological foundations for the Watchtower authority... and ask them how they know that the apostle Peter was raised in the spring of 1918, Christendom's churches were rejected in the fall of 1918 and Jesus chose Bible Student leaders in Brooklyn New York, who knew nothing about their appointment, to be his Faithful Slave in 1919?

In person, I have never got passed the trumpet debacle, but on forums I have been readily able to get to the extra-biblical foundations of Watchtower authority. There are always JWs who actually think their religion is biblical.

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How To Talk About Interpretation With Jehovah's Witnesses.

by Vanderhoven7 in

this from my book: good news for jehovah's witnesses.

before we discuss any doctrinal issues, i would like to distinguish between what i believe is proper versus improper interpretive practice.... so you know what i can accept as biblical and what i can't accept.. basic guidelines for validating doctrinal claims`).

i. there must be at least one scriptural reference that can be cited for support of any doctrinal claim or position.. ii.

Vanderhoven7

This from my book: Good News For Jehovah's Witnesses

INTERPRETATION DIALOGUE

1. How confident are you that Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the Bible properly?

2. Are Jehovah's Witnesses able to recognize interpretive abuse?

Before we discuss any doctrinal issues, I would like to distinguish between what I believe is proper versus improper interpretive practice.... so you know what I can accept as biblical and what I can't accept.

Basic Guidelines for Validating Doctrinal Claims`)

i. There must be at least one scriptural reference that can be cited for support of any doctrinal claim or position.

ii. Scriptural references must not be tampered with added to, deleted from, or have words substituted or meanings altered.

iii. Scriptural references are considered arbitrarily linked unless it is shown that subject or content is clearly related.

iv. Interpretations of biblical passages must take into consideration, context, including textual, situational cultural and historical contexts.

3. What do you think of these guidelines?

4. Do you think applying these guidelines might reduce doctrinal error?

5. How do Jehovah's Witnesses interpret Matthew 13:44?

Again the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hidden in a field; the which when a man has found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. Mt.13:44

- Imagine you are approached one day by two young elders who see this passage as support for the Mormon religion. They explain that Joseph Smith discovered a treasure in gold plates while walking in a field in Up State NY in the year 1827. He immediately buried/hid these plates, but later after fully dedicating himself to God's kingdom, he returned to unearth them. They add that these plates were then translated into what we know today as The Book of Mormon. Then you are asked to compare Mt. 13:44 with Eze. 37:16 regarding the stick/book of Joseph.

6. Would you say this interpretation is Bible-based?

7. Can you identify any problems with the interpretive methodology employed in this interpretation?

8. How would you attempt to set them straight on this passage?

Here is what I would do:

a. First I would introduce the four basic guidelines I showed you. I would use these four guidelines to demonstrate that their explanation of Matthew 13:44 is not based on proper interpretive practice; that they are in fact guilty of interpretive abuse not only for ignoring context and arbitrarily linking an unrelated passage, but also for tampering with (impregnating) the text by superimposing their own church history, names, dates and places onto the Bible. (eisegesis vs exegesis)

b. Secondly, I would apply the sound biblical interpretative practice of letting the Bible interpret itself. I would explain that this parable is 1 of 4 field parables spoken to the multitudes from a boat. Unlike Jesus' vineyard parables that apply specifically to Israel, these field parables pertain to the church and actually foresee the development of the church through history until the harvest. Then I would show them from the parallel passage in the fourth chapter of Mark, that all field parables are related (see Mk. 4:13) as to interpretation. The interpretive keys to the field parables are all provided in Matthew 13 by Jesus Himself, as follows.

CORRECT INTERPRETATION:

The field = the world [verse 38]

The man in field = Son of Man [verses 24, 37 ]

The treasure = Good Seed/ Children of the Kingdom/Church [verse 38]

The Son of Man gives everything he has to purchase field/world to acquire his hidden treasure (hidden even from the prophets - verse 17) the church.

9. Do you agree that these elders have gone beyond what is written when they teach that Matthew 13:44 is about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon? [Yes]

10. Do you think that my pointing out their interpretive abuse might help the elders to see that their teachings here are extra-biblical and and entirely erroneous?

11. Do you think that sound exegesis might correct them and serve to change their minds about this parable?

My take is this: Because their primary faith is in their church leadership and not in the Bible - neither pointing out their interpretive abuse, nor providing sound exegesis is likely to convince these elders that their teachings on this passage are unwarranted or wrong. Besides, if they changed their thinking, they would inevitably be labeled apostates, disfellowshiped and shunned by friends and family and ultimately, in their thinking, God Himself.

12. Do you agree with me that the elder's teaching on this passage is not biblical; that it is derived by interpretive abuse and merely represents the speculations of men?

13. Looking at how your religion interprets scripture now: can you explain several verses in Revelation to me? Revelation 8:1-2; 6-7

And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets .....6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. 7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

14. Do you believe that the first trumpet sounded already? [?]

15. Do you know when and where the first trumpet blast originated?

“Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand” p. 172 reads:

“When the sounding of the seven trumpets got under way in 1922, the Bible Student convention at Cedar Point, Ohio, (Rev. 8:7) featured a talk by the president of the Watchtower Society, J. F Rutherford, based on the scripture, “The kingdom of heaven is at hand.””

16. How do Witnesses know that the first of the seven trumpets got underway in 1922? Is 1922 a biblical date?

17. How do Witnesses know that the first of the seven trumpets got underway at Cedar Point, Ohio? Is Cedar Point Ohio mentioned or alluded to in the Bible?

18. How do Witnesses know which talk inaugurated the first trumpet?

19. Is this what the Bible teaches or is the WTS explanation of Revelation 8 beyond what is written?

20. Do you see why I can't accept this interpretation?

LET ME ASK YOU: Is it possible that your entire religion is founded on similar, if not identical interpretive abuse?

TRUMPET SOUNDING SUMMARY

“1. 1922 Cedar Point, Ohio: A challenge to Christendom's leaders in religion, politics, and big business to justify their failure to bring peace, prosperity, and happiness. Messiah's Kingdom is the panacea.

2. 1923 Los Angeles, California: The public talk, "All Nations Now Marching to Armageddon, but Millions Now Living Will Never Die," called on peace-loving "sheep" to abandon the death-dealing sea of humanity.

3. 1924 Columbus, Ohio: Ecclesiastics indicted for self-exaltation and refusal to preach Messiah's Kingdom. True Christians must preach God's vengeance and comfort mourning humanity.

4. 1925 Indianapolis, Indiana: A message of hope contrasting the spiritual darkness in Christendom with the bright Kingdom promise of peace, prosperity, health, life, liberty, and eternal happiness.

5. 1926 London, England: A locust-like plaguing of Christendom and its clergy, exposing their rejection of God's Kingdom, and hailing the birth of that heavenly government.

6. 1927 Toronto, Canada: An invitation, carried as by armies of cavalry, calling on people to forsake `organized Christianity' and give heart allegiance to Jehovah God and to his King and Kingdom.

7. 1928 Detroit, Michigan: A declaration against Satan and for Jehovah, making plain that God's anointed King, enthroned in 1914, will destroy Satan's evil organization and emancipate mankind.”

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Am I at the right place?

by AnotherJohn in

i’m still a good christian.

i still believe the bible.. i don’t like the wt society, but some of the people, as individuals are good.

there are many nasty jws also.. i have concerns about current events and how close the end actually is.

Vanderhoven7

Welcome aboard AnotherJohn!

Who is here you ask.

Quite a mixed bag actually; Atheists, Agnostics, Apostates, Apposers, PIMOs,, POMOs, PIMIs ( BTW PIMIs - Physically Ins, Mentally Ins tend not to last last too long here) as well as Christians of varying persuasions, like myself. There is no mercy here for the self righteous but plenty of good discussion once you relax and get a feel for the place,

PTL