Posts by Vanderhoven7

32

WT resumes public ministries*

by Smiles in

from jw org news alert:.

breaking news | resuming public witnessing.

on may 31, 2022, the governing body informed all branch committees that they may now resume all forms of public witnessing with the exception of the door-to-door ministry.

Vanderhoven7

RTN

I heard he got so busy he forgot to report his Field service hours and got reprimanded.

36

My personal thoughts on Ray Franz

by Terry in

the death of ray franz hit me harder than i would have thought.. i had to reflect for awhile....alone......and quietly.. .

after all, fine people die every day and some of them are indispensable, yet, we go on....don't we?.

but, ray franz was something that can only be described in the phrase sui generis (one of a kind).. my task was to ask myself what it was that made ray so singular, potent and admirable without a trace of scandal or ill will attached to his memory.. .

Vanderhoven7

I did not realize that Ray's books are available free in PDF format at Raymond Faraz Archives

https://friendsofraymondfranz.com/

49

Start of the Great Tribulation will be announced soon

by joey jojo in

at the 2021 annual meeting, samuel herd revealed new light and claimed the anointed will all have passed away before armageddon.

it has since been revealed that while they will die before armageddon, there will be some anointed still around that will witness the start of the great tribulation.. so the question is, how many years until the existing members of the governing body have passed away?.

im not a doctor, but based on their age and various stages of obesity, im thinking 10- 15 years- give or take, sounds about right.. with that in mind, the great tribulation could be announced any day.. the new understanding has now freed the org from the burden of having to identify a particular generation in relation to the date of armageddon.

Vanderhoven7

The great tribulation is a misnomer. It is just "great tribulation ".

32

WT resumes public ministries*

by Smiles in

from jw org news alert:.

breaking news | resuming public witnessing.

on may 31, 2022, the governing body informed all branch committees that they may now resume all forms of public witnessing with the exception of the door-to-door ministry.

Vanderhoven7

Besides, there is no evidence that any of the Apostles went door-to-door down any street in Jerusalem or Ephesus.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Vanderhoven7

Hi Jammer,

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

You said that verse 21 applied to the 1914 generation exclusively. But notice the immediate context given this event.

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Note that Jesus, because the unrepeatable great tribulation was coming, instructed Christians to pray that their flight would not be in winter or on a Sabbath day.

Is that what you are praying? When did you last pray that your flight will not be in winter or on a Sabbath day when you flee Jerusalem and head for the mountains beyond Judaea?

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Vanderhoven7

Hi Waton,

Yes, Matthew 24 is not about 1914. But it is about the Governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses. See verses 48 - 51.

I think Marilyn A. has it right when she writes about what JWs are trusting in to survive Armageddon.

Referring to sincere JWs:Tragically they rely on 8 stumbling bumbling crumbling charlatans too drunk from their own narcissism to protect children let alone a dog. These JWs kept so stressed out trying to keep up with their demands they fail to notice their leaders' stories continue to change.

Jehovah's Witnesses are indoctrinated to run an endless endurance race without tiring out. They're kept on a hampster wheel as obedient sheep. Is it any wonder then that they do not stop long enough to catch their breath and simply pull back the curtain and see their GB “Wizards" are really just stumbling bumbling crumbling blind little men barking rambling orders.

Sites to Google:

Avoidjw-org,

jwfacts-com,

“Raymond Franz Archives”,

“The Witnesses” on Prime Video Channel,

“WT-HISTORY Michael's Story".

32

WT resumes public ministries*

by Smiles in

from jw org news alert:.

breaking news | resuming public witnessing.

on may 31, 2022, the governing body informed all branch committees that they may now resume all forms of public witnessing with the exception of the door-to-door ministry.

Vanderhoven7

Roll out the carts!

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Vanderhoven7

So here is my take:

36. BUT OF THAT DAY AND HOUR KNOWETH NO MAN, NO, NOT THE ANGELS OF HEAVEN, BUT MY FATHER ONLY.

I believe that this verse and "THAT DAY" signal a change in topic to the second coming (parousia) of Christ. Mt.7: 20-22 Mt.11:22 Jn.5:25,29 Jesus has already explained what would happen to His own generation. Now He contrasts that which would relate to His second coming (parousia) or presence on earth.

36. BUT OF THAT DAY AND HOUR KNOWETH NO MAN,
NO, NOT THE ANGELS OF HEAVEN, BUT MY FATHER ONLY.

37. BUT AS THE DAYS OF NOE WERE, SO SHALL ALSO
THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE.

38. FOR AS IN THE DAYS THAT WERE BEFORE THE
FLOOD THEY WERE EATING AND DRINKING,
MARRYING AND GIVING IN MARRIAGE, UNTIL THE DAY
NOE ENTERED INTO THE ARK,

39. AND KNEW NOT UNTIL THE FLOOD CAME, AND
TOOK THEM ALL AWAY; SO SHALL ALSO THE COMING
OF THE SON OF MAN BE.

40. THEN SHALL TWO BE IN THE FIELD; THE ONE SHALL
BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT.

41. TWO WOMEN SHALL BE GRINDING AT THE MILL;
THE ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT.
Elaboration - Lu. 17:20 -

42. WATCH THEREFORE: FOR YE KNOW NOT WHAT
HOUR YOUR LORD DOTH COME.

43. BUT KNOW THIS, THAT IF THE GOODMAN OF THE
HOUSE HAD KNOWN IN WHATWATCH THE THEIF
WOULD COME, HE WOULD HAVE WATCHED, AND
WOULD NOT HAVE SUFFERED HIS HOUSE TO BE
BROKEN UP.

44. THEREFORE BE YE ALSO READY: FOR IN SUCH AN HOUR AS YE THINK NOT THE SON OF MAN COMETH. Lu.12:42-48

Our beloved Leola writes

“The word parousia does not necessarily denote both "an arrival and a consequent presence"; it commonly denoted just the arrival, such as a terminus or an end-point of a time period (such as a state of affairs continuing UNTIL someone arrives). It is trivially easy to find clear examples of this in Greek literature. The parousia itself would then be a sudden change of the situation as opposed to being itself a duration. That is how it is used in the synoptic apocalypse. It is used interchangeably with erkhomai, and is an event that occurs suddenly or unexpectedly. The comparison of the parousia to the Flood of Noah emphasizes the suddenness of the event that will END an ongoing state of affairs. What was arriving to those on the earth was the Flood itself; it wasn't "invisibly present" beforehand. And even if it was, what happened during those years long before the Flood that made the Flood go from "not present" to "present"? Don't you see the problem? "Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left" (v. 40-41). That pertains to the parousia, in analogy with the Flood, and it highlights the suddenness of the event; people would be in the midst of their daily activities when it happens, just as those before the Flood were in the midst of eating, drinking, and so forth. The arrival denoted by the parousia isn't invisible either; " For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. " (v. 27). Sure there would be a presence after this, but it isn't one unremarked upon by the world at large. It was going to be absolutely obvious, with a spectacle in the sky and with a loud trumpet call from the heavens."

This event then is obviously a future visible and world changing event that all Christians will see and are looking forward to. Hope you are too.

Vander

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Vanderhoven7

Verse 30

Then shall appear the sign of the Son of man - The plain meaning of this is, that the destruction of Jerusalem will be such a remarkable instance of Divine vengeance, such a signal manifestation of Christ's power and glory, that all the Jewish tribes shall mourn, and many will, in consequence of this manifestation of God, be led to acknowledge Christ and his religion. By της γης, of the land, in the text, is evidently meant here, as in several other places, the land of Judea and its tribes, either its then inhabitants, or the Jewish people wherever found.

Verse 31

He shall send his angels - Τους αγγελους, his messengers, the apostles, and their successors in the Christian ministry.

With a great sound of a trumpet - Or, a loud-sounding trumpet - the earnest affectionate call of the Gospel of peace, life, and salvation.

Shall gather together his elect - The Gentiles, who were now chosen or elected, in place of the rebellious, obstinate Jews, according to Our Lord's prediction, Matthew 8:11, Matthew 8:12, and Luke 13:28, Luke 13:29. For the children of the kingdom, (the Jews who were born with a legal right to it, but had now finally forfeited that right by their iniquities) should be thrust out. It is worth serious observation, that the Christian religion spread and prevailed mightily after this period: and nothing contributed more to the success of the Gospel than the destruction of Jerusalem happening in the very time and manner, and with the very circumstances, so particularly foretold by our Lord. It was after this period that the kingdom of Christ began, and his reign was established in almost every part of the world.

To St. Matthew's account, St. Luke adds, Luke 21:24, They shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shalt be led away captive into all nations; and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles, till the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. The number of those who fell by the sword was very great. Eleven Hundred Thousand perished during the siege. Many were slain at other places, and at other times. By the commandment of Florus, the first author of the war, there were slain at Jerusalem 3,600, Josephus. War, b. ii. c. 14. By the inhabitants of Caesarea, above 20,000. At Scythopolis, above 13,000. At Ascalon, 2,500. At Ptolemais, 2,000. At Alexandria, 50,000. At Joppa, when taken by Cestius Gallus, 8,400. In a mountain called Asamon, near Sepporis, above 2,000. At Damascus, 10,000. In a battle with the Romans at Ascalon, 10,000. In an ambuscade near the same place, 8,000. At Japha, 15,000. Of the Samaritans, on Mount Gerizim, 11,600. At Jotapa, 40,000. At Joppa, when taken by Vespasian, 4,200. At Tarichea, 6,500. And after the city was taken, 1,200. At Gamala, 4,000, besides 5,000 who threw themselves down a precipice. Of those who fled with John, of Gischala, 6,000. Of the Gadarenes, 15,000 slain, besides countless multitudes drowned. In the village of Idumea, above 10,000 slain. At Gerasa, 1,000. At Machaerus, 1,700. In the wood of Jardes, 3,000. In the castle of Masada, 960. In Cyrene, by Catullus the governor, 3,000. Besides these, many of every age, sex, and condition, were slain in the war, who are not reckoned; but, of those who are reckoned, the number amounts to upwards of 1,357,660, which would have appeared incredible, if their own historian had not so particularly enumerated them. See Josephus, War, book ii. c. 18, 20; book iii. c. 2, 7, 8, 9; book iv. c. 1, 2, 7, 8, 9; book vii. c. 6, 9, 11; and Bp. Newton, vol. ii. p. 288-290.

Many also were led away captives into all nations. There were taken at Japha, 2,130. At Jotapa, 1,200. At Tarichea, 6,000 chosen young men, who were sent to Nero; others sold to the number of 30,400, besides those who were given to Agrippa. Of the Gadarenes were taken 2,200. In Idumea above 1,000. Many besides these were taken in Jerusalem; so that, as Josephus says, the number of the captives taken in the whole war amounted to 97,000. Those above seventeen years of age were sent to the works in Egypt; but most were distributed through the Roman provinces, to be destroyed in their theatres by the sword, and by the wild beasts; and those under seventeen years of age were sold for slaves. Eleven thousand in one place perished for want. At Caesarea, Titus, like a thorough-paced infernal savage, murdered 2,500 Jews, in honor of his brother's birthday; and a greater number at Berytus in honor of his father's. See Josephus, War, b. vii. c. 3. s. 1. Some he caused to kill each other; some were thrown to the wild beasts; and others burnt alive. And all this was done by a man who was styled, The darling of mankind! Thus were the Jews miserably tormented, and distributed over the Roman provinces; and continue to be distressed and dispersed over all the nations of the world to the present day. Jerusalem also was, according to the prediction of our Lord, to be trodden down by the Gentiles. Accordingly it has never since been in the possession of the Jews. It was first in subjection to the Romans, afterwards to the Saracens, then to the Franks, after to the Mamalukes, and now to the Turks. Thus has the prophecy of Christ been most literally and terribly fulfilled, on a people who are still preserved as continued monuments of the truth of our Lord's prediction, and of the truth of the Christian religion. See more in Bp. Newton's Dissert. vol. ii. p. 291, etc.

Verse 32

Learn a parable of the fig-tree - That is, These signs which I have given you will be as infallible a proof of the approaching ruin of the Jewish state as the budding of the trees is a proof of the coming summer.

Verse 34

This generation shall not pass - .... this generation, meaning the persons who were then living, that they should not die before these signs, etc., took place: but though this was true, as to the calamities that fell upon the Jews, and the destruction of their government, temple, etc., yet as our Lord mentions Jerusalem's continuing to be under the power of the Gentiles till the fullness of the Gentiles should come in, i.e. till all the nations of the world should receive the Gospel of Christ, after which the Jews themselves should be converted unto God, Romans 11:25, etc., I think it more proper not to restrain its meaning to the few years which preceded the destruction of Jerusalem; but to understand it of the care taken by Divine providence to preserve them as a distinct people, and yet to keep them out of their own land, and from their temple service. See on Mark 13:30; (note). But still it is literally true in reference to the destruction of Jerusalem. John probably lived to see these things come to pass; compare Matthew 16:28, with John 21:22; and there were some rabbins alive at the time when Christ spoke these words who lived till the city was destroyed, viz. Rabban Simeon, who perished with the city; R. Jochanan ben Zaccai, who outlived it; R. Zadoch, R. Ismael, and others. See Lightfoot.

The war began, as Josephus says, Ant. b. xx. c. 11. s. 1, in the second year of the government of Gessius Florus, who succeeded Albinus, successor of Porcius Festus, mentioned Acts 24:27, in the month of May, in the twelfth year of Nero, and the seventeenth of Agrippa, mentioned Acts 25 and 26, that is, in May, a.d. 66.

The temple was burnt August 10, a.d. 70, the same day and month on which it had been burnt by the king of Babylon: Josephus, Ant. b. xx. c. 11. s. 8.

The city was taken September 8, in the second year of the reign of Vespasian, or the year of Christ 70. Ant. b. vi. c. 10.

That was the end of the siege of Jerusalem, which began, as Josephus several times observes, about the fourteenth day of the month Nisan, or our April. See War, b. v. c. 3. s. 1, c. 13. s. 7; b. vi. c. 9. s. 3.

Dr. Lardner farther remarks, There is also an ancient inscription to the honor of Titus, "who, by his father's directions and counsels, had subdued the Jewish nation and destroyed Jerusalem, which had never been destroyed by any generals, kings, or people, before." The inscription may be seen in Gruter, vol. i. p. 244. It is as follows: -

Imp. Tito. CaesarI. DIvI. VespasianI. F Vespasiano. Aug. Pontifici. Maximo Trib, Pot. X. Imp. XVII. Cos. VIII. P. P. Principi. Suo. S. P. Q. R

Quod. Praeceptis. Patris. ConsiliIsque. et AuspiciIs. Gentem. Judaeorom. domuit. et Urbem. Hierosolymam. Omnibus. ante. se Ducibus. Regibus. Gentibusque. aut. frustra. Petitam. aut. omnino. intentatam. delevit.

For this complete conquest of Jerusalem, Titus had a triumphal arch erected to his honor, which still exists. It stand on the Via Sacra, leading from the forum to the amphitheatre. On it are represented the spoils of the temple of God, such as the golden table of the show-bread, the golden candlestick with its seven branches, the ark of the covenant, the two golden trumpets, etc., etc.; for a particular account see the note on Exodus 25:31. On this arch, a correct model of which, taken on the spot, now stands before me, is the following inscription: -

Senatus Populusque Romanus DIvo Tito. DIvI Vespasiani. F Vespasiano Augusto.

"The Senate and People of Rome, to the Divine Titus, son of the Divine Vespasian; and to Vespasian the Emperor."

On this occasion, a medal was struck with the following inscription round a laureated head of the emperor: - IMP.erator J.ulius CAES.ar VESP.asianus AUG.ustus. P.ontifex M.aximus, TR.ibunitia, P.otestate P.ater P.atrice CO.nS.ul VIII. - On the obverse are represented a palm tree, the emblem of the land of Judaea; the emperor with a trophy standing on the left; Judea, under the figure of a distressed woman, sitting at the foot of the tree weeping, with her head bowed down, supported by her left hand, with the legend Judaea Capta. S.enatus C.onsultus. at the bottom. This is not only an extraordinary fulfillment of our Lord's prediction, but a literal accomplishment of a prophecy delivered about 800 years before, Isaiah 3:26, And she, desolate, shall sit upon the ground.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Vanderhoven7

Verse 25

Behold, I have told you before - That is, I have forewarned you.

Verse 26

If they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert - Is it not worthy of remark that our Lord not only foretold the appearance of these impostors, but also the manner and circumstances of their conduct? Some he mentions as appearing in the desert. Josephus says, Ant. b. xx. c. 7, and War, book ii. c. 13: That many imposters and cheats persuaded the people to follow them to the desert, promising to show them signs and wonders done by the providence of God, is well attested. An Egyptian false prophet, mentioned by Josephus, Ant. b. xx. c. 7, and in the Acts, Acts 21:38, led out into the Desert four thousand men, who were murderers, but these were all taken or destroyed by Felix. Another promised salvation to the people, if they would follow him to the Desert, and he was destroyed by Festus, Ant. b. xx. c. 7. Also, one Jonathan, a weaver, persuaded a number to follow him to the Desert, but he was taken and burnt alive by Vespasian. See War, b. vii. c. 11.

As some conducted their deluded followers to the Desert, so did others to the secret chambers. Josephus mentions a false prophet, War, b. vi. c. 5, who declared to the people in the city, that God commanded them to go up into the temple, and there they should receive the signs of deliverance. A multitude of men, women, and children, went up accordingly; but, instead of deliverance, the place was set on fire by the Romans, and 6,000 perished miserably in the flames, or in attempting to escape them.

Verse 27

Jews expected the Messiah to come suddenly from some unexpected quarter to deliver from Roman onslaught. Don't follow these pretenders (go not forth) to these desert places. The Messiah will not be holding up in some concealed house or chamber. Christians were not to expect a hidden personal visitation (coming/parousia) during the siege

This verse stands in contrast to the preceding verses. It contrasts Christ's Second Coming with His coming in judgment upon Jerusalem. The disciples were not to expect the parousia of Christ
to deliver Israel during these difficulties. The personal second coming(parousia) would not occur in secret places like deserts or houses,. No one would need to be informed when this coming
occurred. The second coming (parousia) would be a visible and worldwide event of great magnitude. Jesus here clarifies the distinction between his coming in judgment on Jerusalem at the close of the Jewish age and his second personal coming at the end of the gospel age.

Verse 28

For wheresoever the carcass is - Πτωμα, the dead carcass. The Jewish nation, which was morally and judicially dead.

There will the eagles - The Roman armies, called so partly from their strength and fierceness, and partly from the figure of these animals which was always wrought on their ensigns, or even in brass, placed on the tops of their ensign-staves. It is remarkable that the Roman fury pursued these wretched men wheresoever they were found. They were a dead carcass doomed to be devoured; and the Roman eagles were the commissioned devourers. See the pitiful account in Josephus, War, b. vii. c. 2, 3, 6, 9, 10, and 11.

Verse 29

Immediately after the tribulation, etc. - Commentators generally understand this, and what follows, of the end of the world and Christ's coming to judgment: but the word immediately shows that our Lord is not speaking of any distant event, but of something immediately consequent on calamities already predicted: and that must be the destruction of Jerusalem. "The Jewish heaven shall perish, and the sun and moon of its glory and happiness shall be darkened - brought to nothing. The sun is the religion of the Church; the moon is the government of the state; and the stars are the judges and doctors of both. CompareIsaiah 13:10; Ezekiel 32:7, Ezekiel 32:8, etc." Lightfoot.

In the prophetic language, great commotions upon earth are often represented under the notion of commotions and changes in the heavens: -

The fall of Babylon is represented by the stars and constellations of heaven withdrawing their light, and the sun and moon being darkened. See Isaiah 13:9, Isaiah 13:10.

The destruction of Egypt, by the heaven being covered, the sun enveloped with a cloud, and the moon withholding her light. Ezekiel 32:7, Ezekiel 32:8.

The destruction of the Jews by Antiochus Epiphanes is represented by casting down some of the host of heaven, and the stars to the ground. See Daniel 8:10.

And this very destruction of Jerusalem is represented by the Prophet Joel, Joel 2:30, Joel 2:31, by showing wonders in heaven and in earth - darkening the sun, and turning the moon into blood. This general mode of describing these judgments leaves no room to doubt the propriety of its application in the present case.