Posts by Vanderhoven7

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

@Nicolaou,

Your distain for faith is apparent and that is why I declined and will continue to decline your invitation for a respectful discussion on faith issues.

Peace

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Yes, Jehovah’s Witnesses have stated billions will perish at Armageddon. In fact they have written that 99.9% of mankind alive at the end will be destroyed eternally. To them, only Jehovah's Witnesses have a scriptural hope of surviving Armageddon.

Thank you for questioning my beliefs. First I believe the Bible is the word of God from cover to cover., that there is only one class of Christian, that the 144,000 symbolically represent the innumerable great Crowd of believers.

So here is how I understand what the scriptures teach concerning eschatology.

Firstly, I see 1914, 1918, and 1919 as bogus and only serving to distract from the gospel by adding to it unnecessary elements to and requirements for salvation.

Since I see Armageddon is a thing of the past, I believe in and have a hope for the resurrection of all mankind, both the just and the unjust. This is because Christ died not only for the church, but for every person who has ever lived since and including Adam.

At Christ's Second coming, the just will be raised immortal and given a body like unto His glorious body. Their destiny includes reigning over the nations in Christ's kingdom during the millennium.

The unjust will face Christ in their sins and will experience both punishment and judgment. Severity of punishment will depend on circumstance and knowledge....but every evil deed, and word spoken will be brought to light.

All those of mankind, who have not sinned against the Holy Spirit will be ruled with a rod of iron during Christ's reign. Satan will be released at the close of the thousand years and and all those siding with him will be cast into the lake of fire..I.e., destroyed eternally.

Finally, all sin and suffering and death will be eradicated and the new heavenly Jerusalem will descend to the new earth and God's dwelling place will be with man in perpetuity.

Christ is going to win big time. He will draw all men unto himself and we will forever be with the Lord.

As for who has sinned against the Holy Spirit, I will leave that to the one who alone can read the hearts of men. I Chron 28:9, Revelation 2:23

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

Yes, Jehovah’s Witnesses are under a curse because their trust/confidence is in men who have them "working hard for the reward of eternal life" while salvation and its benefits are actually gifts of God’s grace.

Salvation And Its Benefits Are Gifts Of God

SALVATION A GIFT

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

JUSTIFICATION A GIFT

Romans 3:22b-25a… for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith.

Roman's 5:18 Therefore by the offense of one judgment cam upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

ADOPTIVE SONSHIP A GIFT

John_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:15-17 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (also Galatians 3:26)

Galatians 4:4-6 4 But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

ETERNAL LIFE A GIFT

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1John_5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

FORGIVENESS A GIFT

Romans_5:18 And not as through one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment came of one unto condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses unto justification.

Ephesians 1:7 “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.”

Eph. 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

RIGHTEOUSNESS A GIFT

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

Romans 4:23-25 Now it was not written for his (Abraham's) sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification.

HOLY SPIRIT A GIFT

Acts 2:38-39 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

Thank you for the encouragement Thomas!

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

@Godbeliver

Don't hesitate to fill in the details.

According to your current understanding:

Who was the Faithful Slave?

When did Jesus advent occur and when did His enthronement take place?

Can people be saved and sanctified and approved by God if they believe Christ's Second coming is still future?

Can people be saved and sanctified and approved by God if they have had no contact with the Watchtower Society or it's literature and only have the Bible to go on?

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Godbeliever

Thanks for sharing your beliefs.

So, according to your understanding,

1. Did Jesus Christ's presence begin in 1914?

2. When did he give the devil the boot?

3. What year was he enthroned?

4. Did Jesus choose a Faithful Slave?

5. Who is the Faithful Slave today?

6. Can people be saved and sanctified and approved by God if they believe Christ's Second coming is still future?

In other words, they simply have repented and accepted Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord but reject the idea that the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses actually represents God's kingdom? In fact some may have only read the Bible and never heard of the Watchtower Society or read any of it's publications.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Godbeliver,

Correct me I'm wrong, but I take it that you believe that the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses represents the kingdom although the GB thereof is the evil slave.

On what basis have you concluded that they are the evil slave? I know Furuli has also concluded this. Do you believe the evil slave running the organization is preaching a false gospel or the true gospel? How can Christ be running the organization if it is in the hands of the evil slave?

Do you believe all Christians are justified or must the other sheep work for their salvation during the 1000 year reign?

Do you believe like almost all Jehovah's Witnesses that only those faithful serving the organization will survive Armageddon and that individuals belonging to churches will be destroyed eternally unless they repent and come to the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses for salvation?

Thanks for sharing.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

The problem with being one of the Watchtower "other sheep" is that there is no assurance of salvation. Why Not? Because their salvation is dependent on their performance including their loyalty to the Governing Body of a printing company. Forget the fact that salvation is redefined as surviving Armageddon so they can work for 1000 years for the Watchtower Kingdom, pass a final test and acquire the reward of salvation.

No assurance based on the work of Christ to forgive sin; no their death pays for their sins anyway. Does Christ pay for their sins or does their death pay for their sins?

Comparing James with Paul on justification

James writes: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? James 2:21

Paul writes: What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2. For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Rom. 4:1-3

How can we harmonize James and Paul on the subject of justification?

It is critical to note that Abraham was justified by faith before God not only prior to the giving of the law but also prior to offering Isaac on the alter, and actually even before Isaac was conceived. Genesis. 14:6

The solution then is that Paul was talking about justification before God, while James was talking about justification before men. “Show me thy faith by thy works,” says James, “let thy faith be justified in the eyes of those that behold thee by thy works;” but Paul speaks of justification in the sight of God, who justifies those that believe in Jesus, purely on account of the redemption that is in him.” Thus we see that persons are justified before God by faith, but faith is justified before men by works.

CONCLUSION: Genuine faith is invisible to all but God. Visible works alone can demonstrate to others that a person is truly justified. Works alone can attest to whether faith is genuine i.e., saving or justifying faith. However works are not the basis of salvation but rather the product of salvation.

AND by the way preaching a false gospel is not a good work and earns nobody salvation or a reward.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

Yes, justified by grace through faith in Christ's redeeming blood as a free gift of God...but rewarded for works.

All Believers in Christ are now Justified

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Acts 2: 38-39 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Acts 13:38-39 38 Therefore let it be known to you, men and brothers, that through this one forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39. And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Romans 3:21-26 21 But now God has shown us His righteousness; the law and the prophets tell us about it...God's righteousness comes to all who believe, just by their believing in Jesus Christ. There is no distinction. All have sinned and are without God's glory. They become righteous by a gift of His love, by the ransom Christ Jesus paid to free them. God set Him up publicly to pour out His blood before God to take away sin through faith, to show His righteousness...Now He wanted to show His righteousness, to be righteous Himself and make righteous anyone who believes in Jesus. (Beck)

Roman's 5:18 Therefore by the offense of one judgment cam upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (All Justified will be glorified)

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Godbeliver,

Jesus knew what the rich young ruler's problem was. He was a Jew under the law, but he was not keeping the law. Jesus could have said to him follow all of the 613 laws that apply to you and you will have eternal life.. He could have said as Paul said, if you are under the law and break one command you are guilty of all.

No one ever obeyed every single one of God’s laws...except Jesus. The Rich young ruler's main problem was idolatry, he had a god before God. Even full obedience to the law could only take one so far. Sins were covered over but not removed until the perfect sacrifice was made at Calvary.

Obey the commands perfectly and you will live. Jesus was telling him to do the impossible and he would live. The law was designed to bring us to our knees in hopelessness. That's exactly where I was at 17.

Good works demonstrate that our faith is genuine, but they do not save us or contribute to our salvation. God does not want Christians to be wondering if their works are ample enough to secure His approval and salvation. There is no joy in that. Let me ask you Godbeliever, do you know you are justified before God right now? If so, based on what?

https://youtu.be/Ymkl0t0FOcw