Vanderhoven7

Joined

• started 296 topics
• posted 6,124 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Vanderhoven7

• 
  41

  Fascinating Quotations of The Faithful Slave

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  do you have any amazing quotations that have been produced by the faithful slave over the years?.

  remember it's important that we should learn to love and value truth for it’s own sake; to respect and honor it by owning and acknowledging it wherever we find it and by whomever presented.

  a truth presented by the faithful slave himself is just as true as a truth stated by god.. share some of those amazing quotations that have fascinated you.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  
• 
  23

  Did the ransom sacrifice even work?

  by Sharpie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  shower thought entered my mind the other day... jesus christ.

  as per doctrine.

  is still alive in heaven right now correct?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  Hi SeaBreeze,

  "Yes use whatever you wish."

  Thank you Bro.

  "Do you believe in Universal Salvation?"

  Although Christ died for all, and God is not willing that any should perish, those who sin against the Holy Spirit will be eternally lost.

  By the way, I heard that recently, one of the GB members stated that people who are resurrected will face punishment for sins committed in this life, not those committed in the millennium as previously taught. That seems to mess up their teaching that death pays entirely for ones' sins.
• 
  23

  Did the ransom sacrifice even work?

  by Sharpie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  shower thought entered my mind the other day... jesus christ.

  as per doctrine.

  is still alive in heaven right now correct?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  @ Seabreeze

  Excellent response! Hope you don't mind if I copy and use it with your permission.

  Here are some things I have found:

  Christ paid the ransom by His death

  Matthew_20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. (Mark 10:45)

  The ransom was paid for all

  1Timothy_2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

  The price for the believer's ransom being the blood of Christ.

  Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased (ransomed) with his own blood.

  The Ransom was paid to free men from sin's consequences i.e., spiritual separation from God including slavery to sin and ultimately from eternal death.

  
  

  Hos_13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

  The ransom payment was paid for all so mankind would have a right to a resurrection. Christ died for all. But it seems that the benefits of the ransom sacrifice don't apply to the other sheep right now.

  The January 1, 1987 Watchtower, page 30 says:

  "While the small group selected to be taken to heaven have had their sins forgiven from Pentecost of 33 C.E. onward and thus already enjoy the Jubilee, the Scriptures show that the liberation for believing mankind will occur during Christ's Millennial Reign. That will be when he applies to mankind the benefits of his ransom sacrifice."

  Watchtower writings speak highly of "the atonement." But, in fact, as to its importance, they relegate it to a secondary status behind human good works. In an ultimate sense, what is it that determines whether or not the salvation benefits of Christ’s death are applied? It is not faith in Christ that applies the merits of Christ, but the good works and perseverance of the individual and his faith in the Watchtower Society. For without these, the merits of Christ are worthless. The atonement is therefore of secondary importance to man’s own works of righteousness. Apparently then, for the Watchtower Society, what the Bible describes as "filthy rags" (our works of righteousness) has more value for salvation than the sacrificial and sanctified death of Jesus Christ Himself!

  The Witnesses’ doctrine of the ransom largely ignores the Biblical teaching on the subject, by claiming to accept the "ransom sacrifice" which was provided in the death of Christ not as a finished work, but only as a foundation from which man works to provide his own salvation.
• 
  41

  Fascinating Quotations of The Faithful Slave

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  do you have any amazing quotations that have been produced by the faithful slave over the years?.

  remember it's important that we should learn to love and value truth for it’s own sake; to respect and honor it by owning and acknowledging it wherever we find it and by whomever presented.

  a truth presented by the faithful slave himself is just as true as a truth stated by god.. share some of those amazing quotations that have fascinated you.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  
• 
  41

  Fascinating Quotations of The Faithful Slave

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  do you have any amazing quotations that have been produced by the faithful slave over the years?.

  remember it's important that we should learn to love and value truth for it’s own sake; to respect and honor it by owning and acknowledging it wherever we find it and by whomever presented.

  a truth presented by the faithful slave himself is just as true as a truth stated by god.. share some of those amazing quotations that have fascinated you.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  Obey the Faithful and Discreet Slave as you would the voice of God. -Watchtower, June 15, 1957

  To have Jehovah's approval, we need to obey the faithful and discreet slave. -Watchtower (Simplified) Study Edition, July 15, 2011, page 27
  
• 
  23

  Did the ransom sacrifice even work?

  by Sharpie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  shower thought entered my mind the other day... jesus christ.

  as per doctrine.

  is still alive in heaven right now correct?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  Just picked this up from the Org.

  Re: Ransom

  Jesus’ sacrifice is the means by which God delivers, or saves, humankind from sin and death. The Bible refers to the shed blood of Jesus as a ransom price. Thus, Jesus said that he came “to give his life a ransom for many.”​—King James Version.

  Why was “a ransom for many” needed?

  The first man, Adam, was created perfect, or without sin. He had the prospect of living forever but lost it by choosing to disobey God. When he had children, he passed on to them the defect of sin. For this reason, the Bible indicates that Adam “sold” himself and his children into slavery to sin and death. Being imperfect, none of them could buy back what Adam lost.​.

  God felt compassion for Adam’s descendants in their hopeless situation. However, God’s standard of justice required that he not simply overlook or excuse their sins without a valid basis. God loves mankind, so he provided the necessary legal means for their sins to be not only forgiven but also eliminated. The ransom is that legal basis.

  How does the ransom work?

  In the Bible, the term “ransom” involves the following three elements:

  1. It is a payment.​

  2. It brings about a release, or redemption.

  3. It corresponds to the value of what is paid for, or covers it.

  Consider how these elements apply to the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

  1. Payment. The Bible says that Christians were “bought with a price.” That price is the blood of Jesus, with which he “bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation.”​

  2. Release. Jesus’ sacrifice provides a “release by ransom” from sin.​

  3. Correspondence. Jesus’ sacrifice corresponds exactly to what Adam lost​—one perfect human life. The Bible says: “Just as through the disobedience of the one man [Adam] many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one person [Jesus Christ] many will be made righteous.” This explains how the death of one man can pay the ransom for many sinners. In fact, Jesus’ sacrifice is “a corresponding ransom for all” those who take the steps necessary to benefit from it."

     So it seems, according to the WTS that Jesus paid the ransom for all mankind so they could be raised at the resurrection, but I don't see who He paid the ransom to.
• 
  23

  Did the ransom sacrifice even work?

  by Sharpie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  shower thought entered my mind the other day... jesus christ.

  as per doctrine.

  is still alive in heaven right now correct?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  @Seabreeze

  "WT would say that Jesus paid a debt for Adam.... not you or me. For the average JW, the WT would say that you now get to work for your salvation by doing good and adhering to all the rules of the WT. Pretty much the same as the Catholic Church."

  So are you saying that JWs believe the ransom does nothing for them and only for Adam? Yet they believe Adam is already eternally destroyed in their books- no?

  So what do Witnesses believe Jesus' death accomplishes for them if their own death pays for their personal sins?

  Any ideas?
  
  
• 
  41

  Fascinating Quotations of The Faithful Slave

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  do you have any amazing quotations that have been produced by the faithful slave over the years?.

  remember it's important that we should learn to love and value truth for it’s own sake; to respect and honor it by owning and acknowledging it wherever we find it and by whomever presented.

  a truth presented by the faithful slave himself is just as true as a truth stated by god.. share some of those amazing quotations that have fascinated you.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  · 'The Golden Age' January 18th, 1933 page 252

  · "If the message the Jehovah's Witnesses are bringing to the people is true, then it is of greatest importance to mankind. If it is false, then it is the duty of the clergymen and others who support them to come boldly forward and plainly tell the people wherein the message is false.

  
  

  However, pointing out falsities in WTS doctrine is often viewed as persecution.
• 
  31

  I made a Website to examine the scriptures/words usage in every JW publication since 1950/1970

  by ComingOutaMyCage in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi everyone!i'm new here, but have been active on the reddit r\exjw community.

  i have just published a website where i analysed the last 50-70 years worth of watchtowers, awake, books, brochures, and kingdom ministries/work books.. i have collected all the data and published it at the link below.

  you can also see below an example of genesis.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  Welcome to the forum ComingOutaMyCage!

  I'm sure with your background and experience you will be able to contribute to many of the issues dealt with on this forum.

  Looking forward to hearing from you.

  Vh7
• 
  48

  "Jehovah God"

  by Jeffro in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  the expression "jehovah god" has always seemed strange to me.

  even when i was a jw, i found the term awkward, and never used it myself.

  both words are nouns intended to be synonyms of each other, unless the name "jehovah" is being used as an adjective, which is also weird.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  Found it.

  https://youtu.be/NJTImafdP7M