Posts by Vanderhoven7

15

What decade or era in human history do you like the most or would have liked to live during?

by Fisherman in

in the us, the 60s and 70s was a great time to be alive except for getting drafted if you wanted to be that age.

they were music years, greatest movies, fun, simpler and enjoyable days—also except for the d&ugs.

.

Vanderhoven7

Anytime after 1914 since there has been less loss of human life due to earthquakes, famine war and disease...despite enormous world population growth.😶

Stats available "Gentile Times Reconsidered "

37

114,000, Literal, or Symbolic?

by Wonderment in

a poster wrote to me privately, and brought to my attention the following comment below i made a while back in regards to the 144,00 number of revelation.

i had casually conjectured that this number was likely symbolic in line with the book of revelation being mostly symbolic in kind.

he brought up this juicy source:.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Sea Breeze,

Reading Rev. 5:9 in context through the Watchtower lense

. (Revelation 5:8-10) The song of the elders and the cherubim.

Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals; For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation and have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”

The 24 elders are symbolic of the 144,000 according to JWs.

Yes the 144,000 are sealed on the earth in preparation for the tribulation...but the fact that they are on Mount Zion suggests a heavenly post tribulation position.

20

Religion vs. The Gospel

by Chalam in

hello jwners,.

the jw i chatted with recently directed me to matthew 24 with regards to the witnesses and highlighted matthew 24:14. i asked him what "this gospel" is.

the only answer i got was "i'm not sure what you mean".. .

Vanderhoven7

To assess whether or not Jehovah’s Witnesses are preaching the same gospel as Paul preached, we must examine a number of factors including:

a. gospel content

b. nature of salvation

c. means of and criteria for salvation

d. hope offered by the gospel

Let’s look at content first.

Here is what Paul says to the Galatians in chapter 1:6–9 NWT

I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from the One who called you with Christ’s undeserved kindness to another sort of good news. 7. Not that there is another good news; but there are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to distort the good news about the Christ. 8. However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. 9. As we have said before, I now say again, Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed. Gal.1:6-9 NWT

But according to the Watchtower good news we find:

What Now Distinguishes the Good News to Be Preached? What vital thing has now been added to the good news of the kingdom of God that Jesus Christ and his zealous apostles used to preach nineteen hundred years ago? This, namely, the birth of God’s Messianic kingdom in the heavens at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914. And after the ensuing war in the invisible heavens and the ouster of Satan the Devil and his demons from heaven and down to earth, this announcement was sounded forth, to be added to the good news, as stated in Revelation 12:9-12 WT 67 12/15 pp. 758

.

“Note, however, that the message that Jesus said would be proclaimed in our day goes beyond what his followers preached in the first century.” Benefit From Theocratic Ministry School Education page 279:

.

"That issue of The Watch Tower further stated: "in 1920,...Bible Students came to a correct understanding of our Lord's prophecy contained in Matthew 24:14. They then realized that 'this gospel' which was to be preached in all the world for a testimony to the Gentiles or all nations, was not a gospel of a kingdom yet to come but a gospel to the effect that the Messianic King has begun his reign over the earth. "WT Feb 1, 2006 p.25

.

If God Has an Organization, What Is It? Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah’s Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind. That of Jehovah’s Witnesses is really “gospel,” or “good news,” as of God’s heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914. (Luke 21:24) WT 1981 5/1 pp.17-18

Conclusion: The Watchtower is not preaching the same gospel the Apostles preached in the first century; instead they admit that they go beyond what Paul wrote and add extra content to the gospel. So what did they add?

37

114,000, Literal, or Symbolic?

by Wonderment in

a poster wrote to me privately, and brought to my attention the following comment below i made a while back in regards to the 144,00 number of revelation.

i had casually conjectured that this number was likely symbolic in line with the book of revelation being mostly symbolic in kind.

he brought up this juicy source:.

Vanderhoven7

Both the 144,000 and the "Great Crowd") consist of members who are:

144,000 ........................................................................... GREAT CROWD

a. From every kindred and nation. 5:9..................................... 7:9

b. Servants of God. 7:3............................................................. 7:15

c. Divinely protected thru tribulation 9:4,5 /Acts 14:22..........7:14

d. followers of the Lamb 14:4 ..................................................7:17

e. Redeemed 14:3 .....................................................................7:14

f. Pure and Spotless 14:4 .........................................................7:13,14

g. Standing before the throne 14:1,3......................................./7:9

h. Before the Lamb 5:8..............................................................7:9

i. In His temple (naos) 11:1,2 ...................................................7:15; 11:19

j. Tenting/residing with God 2Cor. 6:16 ..................................7:15

i. Dressed in white robes 6:11 .................................................7:9

j. Wearing robes that are washed 22:14 .................................7:14

h. A heavenly class 14:1; 4:1,2; ..............................................19:1

i. Spirit begotten 7:3 I ..............................................................Jn. 5:1

37

114,000, Literal, or Symbolic?

by Wonderment in

a poster wrote to me privately, and brought to my attention the following comment below i made a while back in regards to the 144,00 number of revelation.

i had casually conjectured that this number was likely symbolic in line with the book of revelation being mostly symbolic in kind.

he brought up this juicy source:.

Vanderhoven7

Amen Iriddle80

That is the hearing, then seeing pattern found throughout Revelation.

27

Jehovah's New Light

by Vanderhoven7 in

what new light from jehovah did you find hard to swallow?.

the conversations in the attached video are enlightening.

the graphic is hilarious.. https://youtu.be/byj3zrpbuvg.

Vanderhoven7

Gerrit Lösch would face a disciplinary hearing if caught reading "Crisis of Conscience" and disfellowshipped for reading "In Search of Christian Freedom."

27

Jehovah's New Light

by Vanderhoven7 in

what new light from jehovah did you find hard to swallow?.

the conversations in the attached video are enlightening.

the graphic is hilarious.. https://youtu.be/byj3zrpbuvg.

Vanderhoven7

People should definitively stop asking Jehovah's Witnesses questions they can't answer; at least that they can't answer scripturally. It might just wake them up to the fact that their religion is not biblical i.e., that every doctrine that is unique to Jehovah's Witness is extra-biblical.

27

Jehovah's New Light

by Vanderhoven7 in

what new light from jehovah did you find hard to swallow?.

the conversations in the attached video are enlightening.

the graphic is hilarious.. https://youtu.be/byj3zrpbuvg.

Vanderhoven7

What new light from Jehovah did you find hard to swallow?

The conversations in the attached video are enlightening. The graphic is hilarious.

https://youtu.be/bYJ3ZRPbUVg

20

Religion vs. The Gospel

by Chalam in

hello jwners,.

the jw i chatted with recently directed me to matthew 24 with regards to the witnesses and highlighted matthew 24:14. i asked him what "this gospel" is.

the only answer i got was "i'm not sure what you mean".. .

Vanderhoven7

Hi Guys,

Didn't think this would develop into a thread about Trinity. I was hoping it would be about the distinctions between the Watchtower gospeland that of Paul's.

It seems to me that the gospel that Jehovah's Witnesses preach is very distinct from Paul's gospel in terms of:

a. message content,

b. nature of salvation

c benefits of salvation

d. means of salvation

20

Religion vs. The Gospel

by Chalam in

hello jwners,.

the jw i chatted with recently directed me to matthew 24 with regards to the witnesses and highlighted matthew 24:14. i asked him what "this gospel" is.

the only answer i got was "i'm not sure what you mean".. .

Vanderhoven7

I think the OP bears repeating. Do vs done .