You have a pm Linda concerning Sergio Saavedra a Spanish speaking JW apologist.
Vanderhoven7
JoinedPosts by Vanderhoven7
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50
Who will Survive Armageddon?
by Vanderhoven7 inbreaking news....there is hope for good hearted non-jws!!!.
according to sergio:.
are jehovah's witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?.
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50
Who will Survive Armageddon?
by Vanderhoven7 inbreaking news....there is hope for good hearted non-jws!!!.
according to sergio:.
are jehovah's witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?.
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Vanderhoven7
The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses are experts at judging people. They have determined that all of the churches of Christendom are filled with non Christians.
Of the millions of martyrs who were slaughtered before the 20th century, they have concluded that less than 145,000 were real Christians. The others were merely professed Christians.
The self-declared Faithful Slave has similarly judged that of those billions living when Armageddon strikes, 99.9% of them will be annihilatied.
How would they know any of this?
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50
Who will Survive Armageddon?
by Vanderhoven7 inbreaking news....there is hope for good hearted non-jws!!!.
according to sergio:.
are jehovah's witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?.
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Vanderhoven7
@Earnest
"Doesn't the Governing Body judge peoples destiny based on their relationship to them?"
Earnest: No.
Where does the GB stipulate that ex-Jehovah Witnesses who are honest-hearted apostates to Jehovah's organization may survive Armageddon?
Here to the contrary
The other sheep should never forget that their salvation depends on their active support of Christ's anointed "brothers" still on earth. WT March 15, 2003 p.25
"The Scriptures strongly support the conclusion that at Armageddon Jehovah will destroy the peoples of the earth, saving only those who obey his commandments to stand by his organization."
(Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, 1993, p. 170) -
50
Who will Survive Armageddon?
by Vanderhoven7 inbreaking news....there is hope for good hearted non-jws!!!.
according to sergio:.
are jehovah's witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?.
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Vanderhoven7
@Earnest,
Doesn’t the Governing Body judge peoples destiny based on their relationship to them? Do they consider that apostates may have good hearts? Might they be saved and survive Armageddon and be honored by Christ?
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50
Who will Survive Armageddon?
by Vanderhoven7 inbreaking news....there is hope for good hearted non-jws!!!.
according to sergio:.
are jehovah's witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?.
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Vanderhoven7
@Earnest
I believe JWs have slways held out hope of a resurrection for just about everyone who died before the Great Tribulation....but only JWs after the GT commences...with few exceptions.
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50
Who will Survive Armageddon?
by Vanderhoven7 inbreaking news....there is hope for good hearted non-jws!!!.
according to sergio:.
are jehovah's witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?.
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Vanderhoven7
Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah’s universal organization." Watchtower 2006 May 15 p.22 "Are You Prepared for Survival?"
"As for humans upon earth, on the side of Jehovah will be all those fully dedicated to him and who are faithfully following Jesus Christ; compared with earth's billions these are indeed few.... On Satan's side will be all the rest of mankind, more than 99.9 percent...That includes all the governments of the world together with their supporters, the commercial, religious and social institutions.... Armageddon will be the worst thing ever to hit this earth in the history of man." Watchtower 1958 Oct 15 pp.614-615Sadly only .01% of humanity will survive the alleged onslaught. So that leaves about 8 million Armageddon survivors out of 8 billion....just about the number of faithful Watchtower other sheep. I guess there won't be many if any honest hearted persons in Christendom who will make it through the GT and Armageddon after all.
I appreciate it when JWs tell it like it is.
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50
Who will Survive Armageddon?
by Vanderhoven7 inbreaking news....there is hope for good hearted non-jws!!!.
according to sergio:.
are jehovah's witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?.
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Vanderhoven7
Yes, the idea that all honest church goers and leaders will survive the GT and Armageddon means the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses is redundant and all their claims of association being critical to salvation are utter self-elevating nonsense.
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50
Who will Survive Armageddon?
by Vanderhoven7 inbreaking news....there is hope for good hearted non-jws!!!.
according to sergio:.
are jehovah's witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?.
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Vanderhoven7
So, is Watchtower thinking that Jehovah is opening the door so that every honest hearted church member and church leader may now survive Armageddon? After all, Jehovah of the Watchtower has been known to change his mind before. This would certainly make sense, because these same people would be resurrected if they died before the GT.
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50
Who will Survive Armageddon?
by Vanderhoven7 inbreaking news....there is hope for good hearted non-jws!!!.
according to sergio:.
are jehovah's witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?.
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Vanderhoven7
BREAKING NEWS....THERE IS HOPE FOR GOOD HEARTED NON-JWS!!!
According to Sergio:
Are Jehovah's Witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?Originally Answered: Are Jehovah's withneses the only ones to be saved during the end time?We don’t know.
The Bible gives us God’s requirements for salvation (of course, salvation and eternal life are gifts from God, not something you can earn with your actions, but Jehovah specifies the behaviour he expects from those who are going to receive that gift). Jehovah’s Witnesses do believe that our religion is the only true Christian congregation, and thus the only organized group that leads people to Christ for salvation, and the only organized group that will be saved. But what about individuals? Do we teach that everyone who is not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses will die at Armageddon? Since this question arises now and then, it should be important to reflect the accurate portrayal of what is taught by Jehovah's Witnesses in this area. Notice the following quotations from the publications as to what we view in regard to this issue.
Observe, however, that Jesus did not leave it up to humans to determine who are the "sheep" and who are the "goats." How fine that is! For, if we humans were responsible to judge, how could we properly evaluate factors such as: How much of an opportunity did a person have to hear and accept the good news? Did his genetic, family or religious background affect his response? What is his heart condition—does he love righteousness? If he is a child or was born mentally retarded, how much bearing should family or community responsibility have on the matter?—1 Cor. 7:14; Deut. 30:19.
Unquestionably, not one of us is qualified to weigh these, and perhaps many other, vital factors and principles. We could not reach judgments that are 'perfect, righteous and upright.' (Deut. 32:4) Hence, why should any of us become needlessly involved with trying to decide who will survive and who will not? If we say, 'I think these people in this certain situation are "goats" and will perish eternally, but those in that other category will live,' are we not making ourselves judges? (Jas. 4:12) Rather than trying to decide whether a certain person, family or group of persons fits the description of the "goats" or not, we can be content to leave the matter in the hands of "the Judge of all the earth."—Gen. 18:25.
God's judgments are not merely a matter of applying strict, unfeeling justice. His mercy, compassion and love are involved. As the psalmist David put it: "He has not done to us even according to our sins; nor according to our errors has he brought upon us what we deserve." (Ps. 103:10) Actually the only wages that imperfect, sinful humans deserve is death. (Rom. 6:23) Yet, in His mercy and compassion Jehovah has purposed that the message of salvation be spread extensively so that humans might gain life. He wants them to do so. (Ezek. 33:11; Isa. 55:6, 7) If God's mercy, love and compassion have been displayed so consistently down to this time, and we have benefited from them, cannot we be absolutely certain that they will come into play, too, in the judgment at the conclusion of the system of things? Yes, the survivors will be absolutely right when they proclaim, "Jehovah God, the Almighty, true and righteous are your judicial decisions."— Rev. 16:5-7; 19:1, 2. (Watchtower 1976 6/1 p. 347-8)
Many are exposed to our message as we preach from house to house or informally. Others may learn of Jehovah's Witnesses and what we represent in ways unknown to us. When judgment time arrives, to what extent will Jesus consider community responsibility and family merit? We cannot say, and it is pointless to speculate. (Watchtower 1995 10/15 p. 28)
What will happen to young children at Armageddon? The Bible does not directly answer that question, and we are not the judges. (Reasoning p. 47)
With complete confidence in Jehovah's righteousness, we need not worry about finding answers to questions like: 'How will babies and small children be judged? Might it be that a large number of people will not yet have been reached with the good news when Armageddon arrives? What about the mentally ill? What about...?' Granted, at present we may not know how Jehovah will resolve these issues. He will do so, however, in a righteous and merciful way. We should never doubt that. In fact, we may be amazed and delighted to observe Him resolve them in a way that we never even considered. (Watchtower 1998 8/15 p. 20.)
It should be apparent that we believe that we simply can’t be certain what Jehovah will do in regard to the above mentioned scenarios. Jehovah’s Witnesses understand that the Bible does not give details. Notice that these quotes leave the door open to the possibility that even people who have listened to our message and rejected it, may survive Armageddon. Is it possible these ones will survive Armageddon without JWs understanding of the Bible? Possibly so. Nothing in Scripture would conclusively deny that possibility.
However, it is true that even a number of JWs believe that only JWs will survive Armageddon, and some people may point to some of the comments made in our publications, that, at face value, appear to say so. For instance:
Do not conclude that there are different roads, or ways, that you can follow to gain life in God's new system. There is only one. There was just one ark that survived the Flood, not a number of boats. And there will be only one organization--God's visible organization -- that will survive the fast-approaching "great tribulation." It is simply not true that all religions lead to the same goal . . . . You must be part of Jehovah's organization, doing God's will, in order to receive His blessing of everlasting life... (You Can live Forever p.255)
It is true that we believe that there is only one organization that will survive the great tribulation and Armageddon. We believe that true Christianity is the organization. To us, they are synonymous. However; the statement above in the last quote is still true, IF God chooses to cause the survival of some individuals for the reasons mentioned above.
Yes, the quote states that everyone must become a member of that organization in order to receive everlasting life, which says nothing more than everyone must join themselves to true Christianity, from our perspective. But, please keep in mind that we view Armaggedon mainly as the end of this current system and all its institutions, and that we do not subscribe to the belief that just because you survive Armageddon, you are automatically granted eternal life; according to our understanding of the Bible, that doesn't happen to anyone on earth until the end of the thousand years, so you must keep that comment in its proper perspective.
Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. ...For survival into the Millennium under the Greater Noah, Jesus Christ, they have to remain organized with the anointed remnant, "the chosen ones" on account of whom the days of the "great tribulation" will be cut short. (Watchtower, September 1, 1989, p. 19.)
You have to understand again what this is saying. Just because the Scriptures do not hold out a specific hope for anyone but true Christians, does not rule out the potential for others to survive. There is a difference between saying there is no "Scriptural" hope and there is NO hope. In other words, the Scriptures do not address their survival so we can’t point to a passage or verse and say there is your Scriptural hope of survival if you are not an active worshipper of Jehovah. On the other hand, the Scriptures do hold out a "Scriptural" hope for those who are active worshippers of Jehovah. One should be careful to not make an article say more than it was intending to address. Would we as Jehovah’s Witnesses take from this last quote that all the unbaptized, undedicated children of Jehovah"s Witnesses will not survive the end? Clearly it was not addressing that aspect of survival, just as it was not addressing the aspects that were mentioned in the other articles I quoted above.
One article can balance the information in another one, and that is the case here. You must discern between generalization statements and specific ones.
Jehovah's Witnesses are unique in ever so many ways. They alone speak the 'pure language.' " (The Watchtower, January 15, 1992, p. 24)
"Become United by the Pure Language" was the title of Friday’s public talk. The speaker showed that ... All need to be concerned about learning and speaking the pure language, for only those doing so will survive Armageddon. (Watchtower, January 15, 1991, p. 29.)
So once again, do we think we are going to lose our unbaptized, undedicated children at Armageddon? Was the speaker being exhaustive in his comments about Armageddon survivors or was he speaking in a generalization?
In conclusion, we think ours is the only group that will survive, but for individuals, we do not go beyond what is written in the Bible."
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Perhaps WT religion is not a cult after all.
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How do Witnesses reconcile Isaiah 43:10 with John 1:1
by Vanderhoven7 insomething does not compute.
you are my witnesses,”declares jehovah, yes, my servant whom i have chosen, so that you may know and have faith in me and understand that i am the same one.before me no god was formed, and after me there has been none.
isaiah 43:10. in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god and the word was god.
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Vanderhoven7
@Punky
Yes, Jehovah was the Creator and the angelic creature Michael, the master builder.