Peaceful Pete,
Thanks for living up to your handle and expressing your concern for Witnesses coming to this site. As Christians, If we do not share the truth in love or out of love for Jehovah’s Witnesses and others we fail to glorify God.
Vanderhoven7
JoinedPosts by Vanderhoven7
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Why are so many Jehovah’s Witnesses Angry and Rude?
by Vanderhoven7 inwhy do you think many jws are hostile and rude?
or is that just my imagination?.
mark jones writes: the vast majority of jehovah’s witnesses are nice people.
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Bait and Switch "Bible studies"
by Vanderhoven7 inmark jones, a witness for over 30 years describes what jws call bible studies offered to the public.. .
"they (jehovah's witnesses) offer you a free home “bible” study - which turns out to be a study of a watchtower publication with the bible brought out as an afterthought to try and prop up whatever current idea the governing body are claiming is “the truth” this week.. i think it’s underhanded.. when my parents became jehovah’s witnesses and they offered people a free home “bible” study, this is what they brought to study with them:.
what, did you think they were going to study the bible with you?.
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Vanderhoven7
Mark Jones, a Witness for over 30 years describes what JWs call Bible studies offered to the public.
"They (Jehovah's Witnesses) offer you a free home “bible” study - which turns out to be a study of a Watchtower publication with the bible brought out as an afterthought to try and prop up whatever current idea the governing body are claiming is “the truth” this week.
I think it’s underhanded.
When my parents became Jehovah’s Witnesses and they offered people a free home “bible” study, this is what they brought to study with them:
No longer in print or referred to, because the predictions and claims in it failed. The people who were duped into studying it and becoming Jehovah’s Witnesses and promised that they’d live forever in paradise on earth - died.
When I was a Jehovah’s Witness and the offered people a free home “bible” study, this is what we brought to study with them:
No longer in print or referred to, because the claims in it turned out to be false even by Jehovah’s Witness standards. So it should have been called “What did the bible really teach from 2007–2016?”
Today, when Jehovah’s Witness offer people a free home “bible” study, this is what they bring to study with them:
What, did you think they were going to study the bible with you?
Hahahahahahaha - no.
Go ahead and ask them for a bible study and make clear that you’ll only use the bible and no magazines. They might agree at first (might)… but when its made clear during the first study that you wont use their literature they’ll end the study with you. One reason being, 99% of Jehovah’s Witnesses dont even know what they’re supposed to believe anymore and have never actually read a real bible in context.
The “bible” will be brought out every now and then, you’ll be told to jump around to different scriptures out of context to make it look like the magazine or book is correct and if you dont agree with their leader’s interpretation of scripture you’ll be regarded as “not honest hearted” or “insincere for the truth”.
You’ll also notice that the “bible” they use isn't even called a bible. For legal reasons it’s called “The New World Translation of The Holy Scriptures”. Have a look who was on the translation committee… oh, no, you cant. Because non of them are in any way educated in biblical languages, history or theology.
It’s impossible to be baptized as a Jehovah’s Witness by actually studying the bible and the bible alone.
They dont allow it. No, you have to study what the leaders are saying is true this week via their literature (subject to change) and change your mind as to what is “the truth” when they tell you to.
You know, like a cult.I
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Why are so many Jehovah’s Witnesses Angry and Rude?
by Vanderhoven7 inwhy do you think many jws are hostile and rude?
or is that just my imagination?.
mark jones writes: the vast majority of jehovah’s witnesses are nice people.
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Vanderhoven7
Vidiot 👍😎
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Why are so many Jehovah’s Witnesses Angry and Rude?
by Vanderhoven7 inwhy do you think many jws are hostile and rude?
or is that just my imagination?.
mark jones writes: the vast majority of jehovah’s witnesses are nice people.
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Vanderhoven7
@ Peacefulpete,
I can't remember anyone on this forum being rude or nasty to me.
The irony is not that JWs on this forum are or are not polite, but that they are talking to Ex-JW apostates against the instructions of the Faithful and Wise Servant on whom their salvation depends. So I'm sure they wouldn't have the audacity to report their efforts here as service time.
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Why are so many Jehovah’s Witnesses Angry and Rude?
by Vanderhoven7 inwhy do you think many jws are hostile and rude?
or is that just my imagination?.
mark jones writes: the vast majority of jehovah’s witnesses are nice people.
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Vanderhoven7
Good point Peacefulpete! A wise man once said," Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."
And as Mark Jones commented in the OP:
"The vast majority of Jehovah’s Witnesses are nice people. They strive to be honest and try their best to do what they’ve been told their god wants them to do.
The angry, hostile and rude Jehovah’s Witnesses you find on forums are not representative of the whole bunch. They’re not even supposed to be on here as their leaders forbid it. They’re often committing a disfellowshipping offense by communicating with former members - the irony is lost upon them."
Perhaps Scholar and Fisherman would like to address this irony as obedience to the Faithful Slave is necessary for salvation, i.e., survival at Armageddon. if I'm not mistaken.
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Are Jehovah's Witnesses who are disfellowshipped allowed to communicate and comfort each other while waiting to be reinstated?
by Vanderhoven7 ini just read about a disfellowshipped person who was looking for other disfellowshipped persons to socialize with.
what does the org have to say about this?.
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Vanderhoven7
Fulfilling the org's claim that many who apostatize are mentally diseased.
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144,000 raise the dead and read hearts.
by enoughisenough ini sometimes catch a video of a lady calling the kh and asking questions.
this morning she was questioning something that was said in the annual meeting part 2 and i looked it up for myself.
( feb 23 ) at timeline 1:37 the claim is in the new world jesus and the 144000 will raise the dead and just shortly after that the claim is jesus and the 144,000 will read hearts.
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Vanderhoven7
Sounds like you were listening to Brudget from AZ. Her ministry is calling kingdom halls all over the USA and asking questions that often stump the elders and at the same time reveal important doctrinal errors.
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Daniel Made Simple!
by Leolaia inthe large horn on the goat is the first king of greece (8:21), obviously alexander the great.
after his death, alexander?s kingdom was divided among four of his generals (8:22).
the high priest), and further causes the daily sacrifices to cease, and the sanctuary to be defiled (8:11).
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Vanderhoven7
Ralf Woodrow has some great articles on Matthew 24 and Daniel as well. Here is part of what he wrote regarding the abomination of desolation.
"THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION — FUTURE OR FULFILLED?
Concerning our Lord’s statement about the destruction of the temple, the disciples asked: “WHEN shall these things be? and WHAT SIGN will there be when these things shall come to pass?” (Luke 21:7). As we have seen, Jesus mentioned things of a general nature that would come to pass first. Now he gives THE sign — a specific sign that would let them know that Jerusalem was about to be destroyed. He said that they would see “the abomination of desolation” and when they saw this, they were to quickly flee, for the desolation of the city would be nigh.
Matthew: “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) then let them that be in Judaea flee into the mountains” (24:15,16).
Mark: “When ye shall see the abomination of desolations spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains” (13:14).
Luke: “When ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains . . . Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles” (21:20,21,24).
Now, step by step, let us notice what we are told in these parallel accounts:
1. We notice where Matthew and Mark record: ‘When ye shall see the abomination of DESOLATION . . . then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains”, Luke, in speaking of exactly the same thing, says: “When ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the DESOLATION thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains.” We see, then, that it was JERUSALEM that would become a DESOLATION.
We notice also that this “desolation” was that “which was spoken by Daniel the prophet.” Turning to Daniel 9, we find the passage in which Daniel spoke of this destruction: “And the people of the prince that shall come shall DESTROY the city and the sanctuary” (Dan. 9:26).
Therefore, by comparing the parallel accounts, by the fact that Jesus was answering questions about the overthrow of Jerusalem, and by our Lord’s reference to the prophecy of Daniel, it is evident that what was to become a “desolation” was JERUSALEM. There is no room for any misunderstanding here.
2. Looking again at the parallel accounts, we see that what Matthew and Mark refer to as the “abomination” that would make Jerusalem desolate, Luke (using plain language) shows that such would be armies — Gentile armies: “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with ARMIES, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh . . . Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles” (Lk. 21:20-24).
The word “abomination” is a word that refers to anything that is especially loathsome or detestable. Certainly this fits the feelings the inhabitants of Jerusalem would have toward an idol-worshipping Gentile army advancing to destroy their city! In fact, an army (coming to destroy) is an abomination to any people or nation. And, as history has repeatedly recorded, the work of armies so often results in desolation — destruction!
3. Matthew’s account says that the abomination (Gentile army) would “stand in the holy place” and adds the words: “Whoso readeth, let him understand.” Mark’s account, because it too is given in somewhat veiled language, includes the words: “Let him that readeth understand.” BUT, looking at Luke’s account of the same passage which is given in plain language, we read: ‘When ye see JERUSALEM compassed with armies . . .“ And because he gives the explanation, he does not include the phrase: “Let him that readeth understand.”
By letting the Bible be its own interpreter, then, we see that the term “holy place” (Mt. 24:15), is a reference to Jerusalem. Jerusalem is commonly referred to as the holy city (Mt. 27:53; Dan. 9:16; etc.). According to the prophecy, Gentile armies were to compass it and finally bring it to desolation.
The word translated “place” in the expression “holy place” in Matthew’s account is topos (see any Greek dictionary or Bible Concordance such as Strong’s, Young’s, etc.). The word topos means simply a locality. Such words as topical and topography are derived from it. It is used in such scriptural expressions as “a desert place”, “dry places”, etc. (It is not the same term as that which is used in describing the holy of holies of the temple.)
What is called the holy place is explained by Luke as the area that would be occupied by armies surrounding Jerusalem. The Matthew Henry Commentary has well put it: “Jerusalem was the holy city, Canaan the holy land, the Mt. Moriah, which lay about Jerusalem, for its nearness to the temple was, they thought, in a particular manner holy ground; on the country lying round about Jerusalem the Roman army was encamped, that was the abomination that made desolate.”1
These pagan armies were to “compass” the city (Luke); they would take a “stand” there (Matthew) — the word stand indicating rebellion or hostility. Examples of the word used in this way may be seen in the following:
“A king of fierce countenance.., shall stand up” (Dan. 8:23,25). “A mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion . . . and when he shall stand up . . .” (11:3,4). Another will “stand up in his estate, and shall come with an army” (verse 7). “Then shall stand up . . . a raiser of taxes . . . and in his estate shall stand up a vile person” (verses 20,21). A king “shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand . . .” (verse 25). Concerning persecution against the cause of Christ, we read in Acts 4:26: “The kings of the earth stood up and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord . . .”
We cite these references to show how the word “stand” is used of those who assume a place of leadership or authority to rebel or fight. And in the same sense, the “abomination” — the pagan armies — were to take a stand against Jerusalem and compass it about to destroy it!
Taking then the sum of what Jesus said in this connection, we understand that Jerusalem was to become a desolation; one stone would not be left upon another. Jesus also revealed that this destruction would be caused by “armies.” Jerusalem would be “trodden down of Gentiles”, such idol-worshipping Gentile armies quite correctly being referred to as an “abomination.” Any way we look at it, according to the words of Christ, Jerusalem was marked for destruction by the hands of her enemies.
A few days after Jesus had mentioned these things, however, he commissioned his disciples to wait in this very city — to be endued with power from on high. He explained that they would receive power after that the Holy Spirit had come upon them and they would be witnesses unto him throughout the world, including Jerusalem, where their work would begin (Acts 1:8; Lk. 24:49).
But if the city was to be destroyed, what about our Lord’s disciples that would be there as a witness to that city? Were they to perish with the others — with those who had rejected Christ and cried, “Crucify him, crucify him”? Or would there be a way of escape? According to the scriptures, their witness in that city was to continue up to a certain point — only until they saw a certain sign — and then they were to FLEE and escape the horrid destruction destined for that city and people!
As is well known, the city of Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed by Roman armies in 70 A.D. But before this happened, in obedience to the warning Jesus had given, every Christian fled and thus escaped the awful wrath that befell that city and country! The account of what happened is truly amazing!
In 65 A.D., Florus, the worse of Caesar’s procurators, assumed control of Judea. He did things which brought the Jews to a place of violent rebellion — a rebellion too great for him to handle. Consequently, another man, Cestius Gallus, took over. Marching his armies into Palestine, a number of towns were subdued and he advanced toward Jerusalem. After camping for three days near the city, he began the assault.2
Seeing Jerusalem compassed with Gentile armies, the disciples now knew its desolation was nigh — according to the words of Christ. They also knew this was the sign to flee! But HOW could they flee when the city was surrounded? This had not been explained in the prophecy. But let us see what happened.
Cestius and his armies were being very successful in their battle against Jerusalem. So much so, in fact, that the Jews were ready to give up and shortly would have opened their gates in surrender — thus saving the city and temple. But prophecy had it that these things would be destroyed! When Cestius would have almost taken the city, suddenly — as Josephus says, “without any reason in the world” — he withdrew his troops and departed! This filled the Jews with courage and they pursued the retreating army, inflicting on it a major disaster.3
With the retreat of the armies that compassed Jerusalem, there was a brief interval before the armies would return and destroy the city. And in this brief interval, there was time for the Christians to flee. What happened is well summed up in the words of Thomas Newton:
We learn from ecclesiastical histories, that at this juncture all who believed in Christ departed Jerusalem, and removed to Pella and other places beyond the river Jordan; so that they all marvelously escaped the general shipwreck of their countrymen; and we do not read anywhere that so much as one of them perished in the destruction of Jerusalem.4
Adam Clarke wrote: “it is very remarkable that not a single Christian perished in the destruction of Jerusalem though there were many there when Cestius Gallus invested the city.”5 Truly it was a marvelous escape! What confirmation of our Lord’s words! What an amazing fulfillment of prophecy!
The Christians having now made their escape, the desolation of Jerusalem was nigh. After Cestius Gallus had retreated with his troops, Nero then ordered Vespasian to take over. He, in turn, ordered his son, Titus, to go to Alexandria and bring the 5th and 10th legions from Egypt — to subdue Judea. But a crisis developed in Rome causing Vespasian to return there (where in 70 A. D. he was hailed as the new Emperor) and the job of capturing Jerusalem was left in the hands of Titus and his armies.6
We see, then, that in the place where Matthew and Mark use the somewhat veiled expression “abomination of desolation”, Luke (using plain language) shows that such was to be Gentile armies compassing Jerusalem to bring it to desolation. All three of the gospel accounts before mentioning this sign begin with the words: “When ye see . . .” and follow this with the words: “Then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains”, etc. There can be no mistake that these are parallel accounts. By simply letting the Bible explain itself, we have seen that the “desolation” was to be the destruction of Jerusalem (city and temple); the “abomination of desolation” referred to heathen armies that would bring about the desolation; and when these armies would be seen compassing Jerusalem, the disciples were to flee...."
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Why are so many Jehovah’s Witnesses Angry and Rude?
by Vanderhoven7 inwhy do you think many jws are hostile and rude?
or is that just my imagination?.
mark jones writes: the vast majority of jehovah’s witnesses are nice people.
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Vanderhoven7
Charlie Ryde is an apostate to the WTS. She writes
Jehovahs Witnesses have a harsh spirit against Apostate exJWs because of the same reasons they do/think/say anything in their lives: Because the Watchtower and Governing Body told them to.
The following passage is what the Watchtower Org tells them about anyone who speaks out against their doctrines or beliefs.
apostates are “mentally diseased,” and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings. (1 Tim. 6:3, 4) Jehovah, the Great Physician, tells us to avoid contact with them.
The JWs you meet in real life are not usually as vile as the ones you see on Quora. The true narcissists seem to gravitate to this app. I have, though, encountered plenty of JWs that felt free to publicly chastise me or turn the other direction when they see me coming, including my own brother.
If you were to believe all of the tripe posted by JWs on Quora you would come to the conclusion that all of us that speak out against the Watchtower do so because we are gross sinners who just want to do what we want and are marked for destruction. For them to encounter people that are articulate and intelligent, people who have resolved their problems by leaving, or people that have the stated mission that they are speaking out in order to protect others, is so contrary to what the Watchtower tells then to believe that they just can’t manage it.
So they attack us, because you always hate what you fear. That is the foundation of bigotry.
A personality constant you will find with JWs is a basic lack of empathy. It is top to bottom in the organization. Imagine a people who pride themselves on shunning their own children and families for the teachings of some false prophets who claim they are anointed by God. They consider it a strength to discard their child like trash.
I am an Apostate. I work in healthcare. We take in the “mentally diseased” and try to help them cope. The Watchtower Organization is so afraid of their member’s weak faith, and they should be. The false prophecies continue to stack up. Time continues to tick tick tick into the future that should never have existed.
I am an Apostate. I hope to save someone from having their life stolen by this controlling cult. I will accept the hatred of the many for the sake of the few.
Footnotes
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Are Jehovah's Witnesses who are disfellowshipped allowed to communicate and comfort each other while waiting to be reinstated?
by Vanderhoven7 ini just read about a disfellowshipped person who was looking for other disfellowshipped persons to socialize with.
what does the org have to say about this?.
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Vanderhoven7
Are there any other former JWs looking to return? I seek companionship
Here is the message I gave that downcast lonley soul.
"Sounds like you have been disfellowshipped and are trying to get reinstated. Parents won't talk to you? Your friends have forsaken you lest they too get disfellowshipped. I'm sure when you attend meetings no one is allowed to talk to you and you must avoid eye contact with others in right standing with organization. Now you are seeking fellowship with other outcasts of the religion who may want to share your sorrows with you.
But unlike the prodigal son, you must come crawling back begging for people to accept you…but the elders don't come running to greet you and hug you and have a party, do they? You will find plenty of outcast Witnesses at