Look at this amazing generation overlap. The oldest one probably saw the events of 1914 from her crib.
Vanderhoven7
JoinedPosts by Vanderhoven7
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A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist
by Giles Gray ini would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.
i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.
i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.
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Shunning and persecution
by Vanderhoven7 injws see shunning as a loving provision.
but if a mennonite gal is shunned by her parents and friends for converting to jwism, would this be seen as a loving provision or as evidence of persecution?
how about parents beating a daughter who converted to jehovah's witnesses?.
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Vanderhoven7
Shunning a loving provision or persecution?
Apparently it depends on who is doing the shunning.
Jackson found the article I was looking for.
Excerpt from the WatchTower 2005 Sept 1 Article “Mennonites Search for Bible Truth”
A few days later, the church elders came to the home of Johann’s family with an ultimatum for the interested ones: “We heard that Jehovah’s Witnesses visited you. You must forbid them to return, and unless you hand over their literature to be burned, you face expulsion.” They had had just one Bible study with the Witnesses, so this presented a formidable test.
“We cannot do as you ask,” replied one of the family heads. “Those people came to teach us the Bible.” How did the elders react? They expelled them for studying the Bible! This was a cruel blow indeed. The cart belonging to the colony cheese factory passed by the home of one family without collecting their milk, denying them their only source of income. One family head was dismissed from his job. Another was turned away from buying supplies at the colony store, and his ten-year-old daughter was expelled from school. Neighbors surrounded one home to take away the wife of one of the young men, asserting that she could not live with her expelled husband. Despite all of this, the families who studied the Bible did not give up their search for the truth.
Notice that the expulsion is labeled as “cruel”. When a JW is disfellowshipped, what happens between him and his JW clients if he is a businessman?
I know a woman who was a professional massage therapist. Before she was even read off from the platform, the elders from her “not judicial” committee called her JW clients and informed them that they should no longer go to her. It was an incredible drop in income.
Anyone who is DF'd, forcibly DA'd or who disassociate for conscientious reasons loses their whole social network overnight. Some lose their jobs as a result. Some are kicked our of their homes.
Why can WatchTower call the expulsion of Mennonites cruel while calling expulsion of JWs a loving provision?
Why is it cruel when Mennonites break ties with a member who changes religion, but it's perfectly fine for JWs to shun another JW who changes religion, or, God forbid, simply disagrees with the Governing Body on a doctrinal matter?
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Answering JW Conversation Stoppers
by Vanderhoven7 injws often try to justify their religion as being the only true religion.
questions like.
which other organization is doing this or that?
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Vanderhoven7
All is good Beth.
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Shunning and persecution
by Vanderhoven7 injws see shunning as a loving provision.
but if a mennonite gal is shunned by her parents and friends for converting to jwism, would this be seen as a loving provision or as evidence of persecution?
how about parents beating a daughter who converted to jehovah's witnesses?.
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Vanderhoven7
Thank you Hopeless1
"No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family." - Awake, July 2009, p. 29
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Shunning and persecution
by Vanderhoven7 injws see shunning as a loving provision.
but if a mennonite gal is shunned by her parents and friends for converting to jwism, would this be seen as a loving provision or as evidence of persecution?
how about parents beating a daughter who converted to jehovah's witnesses?.
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Vanderhoven7
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences Ding, Linda and LongHairGal.
I am looking for the Watchtower that stated that people shouldn't have to choose between their family and religion...that might shedsome light on this issue.
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Shunning and persecution
by Vanderhoven7 injws see shunning as a loving provision.
but if a mennonite gal is shunned by her parents and friends for converting to jwism, would this be seen as a loving provision or as evidence of persecution?
how about parents beating a daughter who converted to jehovah's witnesses?.
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Vanderhoven7
A JW has challenged the idea that JWs would interpret as persecution someone being shunned because they have left their parents religion to become a JW.
Seems axiomatic - no?
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Shunning and persecution
by Vanderhoven7 injws see shunning as a loving provision.
but if a mennonite gal is shunned by her parents and friends for converting to jwism, would this be seen as a loving provision or as evidence of persecution?
how about parents beating a daughter who converted to jehovah's witnesses?.
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Vanderhoven7
JWs see shunning as a loving provision. But if a Mennonite gal is shunned by her parents and friends for converting to JWism, would this be seen as a loving provision or as evidence of persecution? How about parents beating a daughter who converted to Jehovah's Witnesses?
I wonder if their is anything in the literature about this?
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Answering JW Conversation Stoppers
by Vanderhoven7 injws often try to justify their religion as being the only true religion.
questions like.
which other organization is doing this or that?
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Vanderhoven7
Graeme Hammond responded as follows:
1 Corinthians 1:10 does not exist in a vacuum; it has context. Paul gave his exhortation to be united in the same line of thought for the specific, explicit reason that Christians of his day were saying they “belonged” to the person who baptised them instead of belonging to Christ. Your use of that text is argumentum ad absurdum, creating a universal application to what is a simple instruction. By that same reasoning the Governing Body or bodies of elders would never dare vote on anything for fear of displaying a difference of opinion.
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Answering JW Conversation Stoppers
by Vanderhoven7 injws often try to justify their religion as being the only true religion.
questions like.
which other organization is doing this or that?
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Vanderhoven7
JWs often try to justify their religion as being the only true religion. Questions like
Which other organization is doing this or that? Here is one from a JW. You may have others.
"So consider the following verse, and then ask yourself, “In view of that verse, what would I do if I was in charge and wanted to meet the criteria required in that verse”?
1 Corinthians 1:10 from the “NIV” version of the Bible:
“I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.”
Hmmm.
- All agree with one another in what you say
- No divisions among you
- Perfectly united in mind and thought
So what do you do?
We’re happy to be led by some wonderfully trustworthy, logical, reasonable, and studious men, who themselves follow closely in the steps of Jesus. Not perfect by any means, but diligent hard workers who do their level best to adhere to the Bible. And if we come to the conclusion that our understanding could use some “updating”, we are not hog-tied by creeds or traditions. Like scientists who are happy to adjust their views when new evidence comes to light, so do we. Meanwhile, we all adhere to the best understanding that is available now so that we can all agree with one another. Why? Because of the verse quote above.
Now, doesn’t that make good sense?
How would you answer?
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Giving hope for all truth-loving people
by Person init it not easy for me but i would like to share with you my story and my take on what happend and is happening in jw.
for some my view can be unacceptable for others can be useful.
in fact it can be answer to the question: why am i still even bother what's is going on in this obviously corrupt organization?
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Vanderhoven7
Hi Person,
Welcome to the forum.
What is your hope?