Posts by Vanderhoven7

169

Rich Man and Lazarus

by Ding in

i have never understood the watchtower's explanation of the rich man and lazarus story jesus told in luke 16. of course, they don't believe jesus is talking about what happens in an "afterlife" after people die.. but from the watchtower's point of view:.

1. who are the five brothers?.

2. why can't lazarus go witness to them?

Vanderhoven7

Wow! This is an excellent thread...that merits a resurrection.

773

Breaking News: Anthony Morris III no longer serving on the Governing Body

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

this has been announced on the jw's official website, in the "jw news" section.

this is not a joke.

anthony moron da turd is out as a gluttonous body member!

Vanderhoven7

Grant Davis writes

The Norwegian congregations will be having to make up the shortfall of not only the $1.5m lost, but the legal fees.

To quote the disgraced Tony Morris et alia, “We can certainly see Jehovah’s hand in this.”

42

Why did you leave the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by Vanderhoven7 in

i've never been a witness so i never left.

graeme hammond writes:.

for some years i’d had a growing irritation and disillusionment with the religion: i was getting tired of the pompousness, the arrogance and the control, i felt increasingly choked by their restrictions and i was drained by their demands on my time.

Vanderhoven7

Can people love the Father and the Son without associatiating with an organization with headquarters in New York?

And why can't Watchtower apostates know and love Jehovah and His Son? Does rejection of Watchtower religion mean one is rejecting Jehovah?

Or is it as Joe Turec said - Unlike true Christians who preach the gospel of Jesus death and resurrection, JWs think salvation is through the organization. No where does Jesus say we are saved by an organization. No where is that instructed in any gospel or epistle. We are saved by faith in Jesus.

47

Luke 16: 19-24

by vlad in

19but a certain man was rich, and he used to deck himself with purple and linen, enjoying himself from day to day with magnificence.20but a certain beggar named laz arus used to be put at his gate, full of ulcers21and desiring to be filled with the things dropping from the table of the rich man.

yes, too, the dogs would come and lick his ulcers.22now in course of time the beggar died and he was carried off by the angels to the bosom [position] of abraham.. also, the rich man died and was buried.23and in ha des he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw abraham afar off and laz arus in the bosom [position] with him.24so he called and said, father abraham, have mercy on me and send laz arus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because i am in anguish in this blazing fire.. my old account does not seem to be working, so i am not a new member but i did not post loads anyway.

i am an now an athiest myself but anytime i ask jws about a scripture they say its pointless discussing it with me becuase i am only doing it to tear them down.

Vanderhoven7

And actually, the first narrative in Luke 16 is probably not a parable either since it encourages people to dishonesty, self seeking, ingratiating oneself to the master's creditors, all to earn heavenly rewards.

Regarding the second allegory... the headline in the Jerusalem Chronicle the day after Jesus told the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus, probably read something like, "Jesus Turns the Tables on the Pharisees in the Afterlife!"

42

Why did you leave the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by Vanderhoven7 in

i've never been a witness so i never left.

graeme hammond writes:.

for some years i’d had a growing irritation and disillusionment with the religion: i was getting tired of the pompousness, the arrogance and the control, i felt increasingly choked by their restrictions and i was drained by their demands on my time.

Vanderhoven7

@Fisherman,

Re: Do you think the young lady in the video and those evaluating her perhaps love Jehovah and His Son?

<<No, she faked pretending first she didn’t know the verse then all of a sudden she quotes it.>>

Actually, she did not pretend anything. She knew where the quote came from. That's why she pressed her buzzer. She temporarily struggled for the name of the book itself. Watch it again.

Funny how JWs claim they don't judge others. I'm afraid that your organization has blinded you to reject even the evidence provided by the faith of children and turn their faith into fabrication.

Similarly, based on a numerical theory, the men you put your trust in judge 99.9% of the those martyred prior to the 20th century for the name of Christ as non Christians, just as they judge 99.9% of those who name the name of Christ today worthy of annihilation.

Simply a case of the blind leading the blind.

Can't people love the Father and the Son without associatiating with an organization in Warwick New York?

47

Luke 16: 19-24

by vlad in

19but a certain man was rich, and he used to deck himself with purple and linen, enjoying himself from day to day with magnificence.20but a certain beggar named laz arus used to be put at his gate, full of ulcers21and desiring to be filled with the things dropping from the table of the rich man.

yes, too, the dogs would come and lick his ulcers.22now in course of time the beggar died and he was carried off by the angels to the bosom [position] of abraham.. also, the rich man died and was buried.23and in ha des he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw abraham afar off and laz arus in the bosom [position] with him.24so he called and said, father abraham, have mercy on me and send laz arus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because i am in anguish in this blazing fire.. my old account does not seem to be working, so i am not a new member but i did not post loads anyway.

i am an now an athiest myself but anytime i ask jws about a scripture they say its pointless discussing it with me becuase i am only doing it to tear them down.

Vanderhoven7

Luke 16:19-31 is probably not a parable. Such an interpretation does not develop naturally from either the context of the chapter or the specific situation Jesus was facing. In addition, there are a number of reasons that suggest this account may not be a parable.

Firstly, Jesus’ parables are usually identified for us by the gospel writers themselves; this one is not. Secondly, gospel parables tend to center on one clear concept or point out one clear truth; this one does not. Thirdly, the parables of Jesus all involve everyday common events and possible human experiences; this one does not. Fourthly, there are no other parables of Jesus where one finds personal names weaved into the story.

Lastly, and most importantly, the intense suffering of sinners in the afterlife as illustrated in Luke 16 is exactly what the Pharisees believed and taught at the time of Christ. Certainly then, it was needless for Christ to teach frightening truths about the suffering of those in hell in parabolic form to the literal hellfire preachers of the day. The Rich Man and Lazarus then does not readily fit the mold of parable.

10

Do Your Own Research.

by LostintheFog1999 in

there were several times when i was inside the congregation that i met up with a problem in my life and on mentioning it at a group i would be told to do my own research about it.. of course, they didn't mean for me to research worldly material for the answer but to use the wt indexes and look into the wt society magazines.. it was only when i started to do my own research outside of the wt that i began to see the limited scope of the society's magazines as all problems usually fell into the category of 1. read the bible, attend meetings, go out on the work, and pray; or 2. this isn't going to be fixed now but in the new world god will sort it out and the former things (what you are suffering from now) will not be called to mind.. i wonder how many people still in are struggling and are not being encouraged to research away from the organisation where they would receive practical and valuable advice?.

Vanderhoven7

Yes, do your own research like the Beroeans. Don't accept a "Bible study" with Jehovah's Witnesses.

https://youtube.com/shorts/fQXdu5ZCx-U?feature=share

42

Why did you leave the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by Vanderhoven7 in

i've never been a witness so i never left.

graeme hammond writes:.

for some years i’d had a growing irritation and disillusionment with the religion: i was getting tired of the pompousness, the arrogance and the control, i felt increasingly choked by their restrictions and i was drained by their demands on my time.

Vanderhoven7

Fisherman

Reads fine in the NWT as well.

Yes it seems that most of the respondents on this thread left the organization because they sensed the lack of that genuine "loving feeling" that is necessarily associated with truth.

Do you feel that Jehovah's Witnesses are the happiest, well adjusted and most loving people on earth? Do you think the young lady in the video and those evaluating her perhaps love Jehovah and His Son as much or even more than you? Will God destroy them because they do not associate with your organization?

Why haven't you left the organization for the same or similar reasons the wonderful "apostates" on this thread have?

17

Watchtower Says Their Writings Are Part of the Bible and Are Essential For Salvation

by Sea Breeze in

hard to believe, but it's true:watchtower december 15, 2008, pg.

28 – “our coming to know "the truth‟ - the entire body of christian teachings that has become part of the bible - and adhering to it are essential for our salvation”.this is the same position of the roman catholic church.

one of the pope’s titles is the vicar of christ.

Vanderhoven7

QUESTIONING JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ABOUT HOW THE BIBLE IS VIEWED.

How important is truth to you?

If you didn't have the truth, would you want to know it?

1. How much faith do you have in the Bible? (complete?)

2. Do you view the scriptures the same way the apostles did? (II Tim.3:15, 16)

3. Do you believe your religion is clearly biblical?

4. Could someone studying the Bible alone come up with exactly what you believe?

5. Do you believe that someone who only has the Bible can read it and be saved?

6. What role does the Bible actually play in determining your religious beliefs?

7. Would you say that your faith is primarily in the Bible or is it primarily in your religious leaders (i.e.; those taking the lead) and their interpretations of the Bible?

8. Could there be a discrepancy between what your religion teaches and what the Bible teaches? Has there ever been?

9. Does new light or doctrinal modifications made by your religious leaders act as a corrective to change what you believe the Bible teaches?

10. Could the Bible ever act as a corrective to change your beliefs contrary to what your religions leaders teach?

11. If a person puts his complete trust in a Bible scholar, with an “if he says it, I believe it” attitude, would his faith ultimately be in the Bible or the scholar?

12. If you somehow lost faith in your religion's primary leadership, would you lose your faith in God and the Bible?

What do you think about the following quotations dealing with the relative value of the bible vs the publications?

“... not only do we find that people cannot see the divine plan in studying the Bible by itself, but we see, also, that if anyone lays the SCRIPTURE STUDIES aside, even after he has used them, after he has become familiar with them, after he has read them for ten years - if he then lays them aside and ignores them and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the SCRIPTURE STUDIES with their references, and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the Scriptures.” Watchtower: September 15, 1910, page 298

arrogant to value ones own books above Bible – no?

Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do,” (Watchtower, Dec. 1, 1981, p. 27).

WT values the organization input over the Bible's

WT 10/1/1967: "Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah's visible organization in mind."

WT 1/15/1983: "Would we know the way of the truth if it had not been for guidance from the organization? Really, can we get along without the direction of God's organization? No, we cannot!"

76

Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

by Sea Breeze in

here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

.

Vanderhoven7

2¶Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: I Corinthians 1:2