Posts by Vanderhoven7

31

Beroean Pickets

by joe134cd in

hi i've been reading a web sight called borean pickets.

http://meletivivlon.com/2015/05/09/may-tv-broadcast-on-tv-jw-org/.

although the guy writes some real thought provoking stuff, i sort of don't know what to make of it.

Mr. Wilson has excellent videos on Matthew 24. I say that for the most part, because we are in agreement on this critical chapter. I think he is doing God's will to the best of his ability...but I think he would be better off not showing contempt for the Trinity....eternal torment, yes, Trinity, no.

32

Do you play the LOTTERY?

by Fisherman in

jw view gambling as a sin and sadly people get addicted to gambling causing them financial and health problems.

but is playing a couple of bucks a week on some lottery tickets actually gambling?

what do you have to lose?

Vanderhoven7

Nope.

By the way, isn't gambling a disfellowshipping offense?

60

Sign of the Last Days

by Fisherman in

in the sermon on the mount, jesus foretold that earthquakes “in one place after another” would be part of the sign of the last days clímaxing in the great tribulation.. what could jesus possibly have meant?

using a phone app nowadays, there are earthquakes detected in one place after another but is this what jesus meant and did they have so many earthquakes throughout the centuries affter his prophecy or are these modern day detected earthquakes unique to this epoch?

how can we be sure unequivocally that modern day earthquakes are part of the sign fulfilling bible prophecy?.

Vanderhoven7

@Konagirl

Jesus was clearly talking about the stones of the literal temple. Find me one Bible scholar which thinks otherwise. Even the Watchtower admits this.

The following is an excerpt from The Watchtower of May 1, 1999 (p. 11,12) which contains some elements of sound interpretation.

In the years leading up to 66 C.E., Christians would have seen many of the preliminary elements of the composite sign being fulfilled-wars, famines, even an extensive preaching of the good news of the Kingdom. (Acts 11:28; Colossians 1:23) When, though, would the end come? What did Jesus mean when he said: 'This generation [Greek, ge.ne.a'] will not pass away'? Jesus had often called the contemporaneous mass of opposing Jews, including religious leaders, 'a wicked, adulterous generation.' (Matthew 11:16; 12:39, 45; 16:4; 17:17; 23:36) So when, on the Mount of Olives, he again spoke of "this generation," he evidently did not mean the entire race of Jews throughout history; nor did he mean his followers, even though they were "a chosen race." (1 Peter 2:9) Neither was Jesus saying that "this generation" is a period of time.

Rather, Jesus had in mind the opposing Jews back then who would experience the fulfillment of the sign he gave. Regarding the reference to "this generation" at Luke 21:32, Professor Joel B. Green notes: "In the Third Gospel, 'this generation' (and related phrases) has regularly signified a category of people who are resistant to the purpose of God. . . . [It refers] to people who stubbornly turn their backs on the divine purpose." *

The wicked generation of Jewish opposers who could observe the sign being fulfilled would also experience the end. (Matthew 24:6, 13, 14) And that they did! In 70 C.E., the Roman army returned, led by Titus, son of Emperor Vespasian. The suffering of the Jews who were again bottled up in the city is almost beyond belief." Eyewitness Flavius Josephus reports that by the time the Romans demolished the city, about 1,100,000 Jews had died and some 100,000 were taken captive, most of those soon to perish horribly from starvation or in Roman theaters. Truly, the tribulation of 66-70 C.E. was the greatest that Jerusalem and the Jewish system had ever experienced or would ever experience. How different the outcome was for Christians who had heeded Jesus' prophetic warning and had left Jerusalem after the departure of the Roman armies in 66 C.E.!

__________________

31

Beroean Pickets

by joe134cd in

hi i've been reading a web sight called borean pickets.

http://meletivivlon.com/2015/05/09/may-tv-broadcast-on-tv-jw-org/.

although the guy writes some real thought provoking stuff, i sort of don't know what to make of it.

Vanderhoven7

I think Eric Wilson is doing a great job exposing WT errors and harmful practices. He was a former elder who was disfellowshipped. He is critical of eternal torment teaching and is opposed to the Trinity but promotes the Bible as God's word and a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as God's Son.

He is not perfect; has some rough edges so-to-speak and I question his physical health right now.

50

Who will Survive Armageddon?

by Vanderhoven7 in

breaking news....there is hope for good hearted non-jws!!!.

according to sergio:.

are jehovah's witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?.

Vanderhoven7

According to their literature, ONLY Jehovah's Witnesses and those associated with the Watchtower Organization can expect to survive the big A.

Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19

"During the final period of the ancient world that perished in the Flood, Noah was a faithful preacher of righteousness. (2 Peter 2:5) In these last days of the present system of things, Jehovah's people are making known God's righteous standards and are declaring good news about the possibility of surviving into the new world. (2 Peter 3:9-13) Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah's universal organization." Watchtower 2006 May 15 p.22 "Are You Prepared for Survival?"

"Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it." Watchtower 1983 Feb 15 p.12

"... to leave Jehovah's organization ... we would lose not only the privilege of doing God's will but also the hope of life in God's new world." Watchtower 2016 Jun study ed p.26

"But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy." Watchtower 1993 Sep 15 p.22
"They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah's organization is essential to their salvation." Kingdom Ministry 1990 Nov p.1

"At this stage of the affairs of man, it is absolutely impossible for anyone, professed Christian or otherwise, to stand independently of the one organisation that is bearing witness worldwide to Jehovah, his goodness and supremacy in accord with the 145th Psalm and, in fact, in accord with all the Scriptures." Yearbook 1982 p.259

60

Sign of the Last Days

by Fisherman in

in the sermon on the mount, jesus foretold that earthquakes “in one place after another” would be part of the sign of the last days clímaxing in the great tribulation.. what could jesus possibly have meant?

using a phone app nowadays, there are earthquakes detected in one place after another but is this what jesus meant and did they have so many earthquakes throughout the centuries affter his prophecy or are these modern day detected earthquakes unique to this epoch?

how can we be sure unequivocally that modern day earthquakes are part of the sign fulfilling bible prophecy?.

Vanderhoven7

Here is an interesting commentary...and you won't believe where it came from...

In the years leading up to 66 C.E., Christians would have seen many of the preliminary elements of the composite sign being fulfilled-wars, famines, even an extensive preaching of the good news of the Kingdom. (Acts 11:28; Colossians 1:23) When, though, would the end come? What did Jesus mean when he said: 'This generation [Greek, ge.ne.a'] will not pass away'? Jesus had often called the contemporaneous mass of opposing Jews, including religious leaders, 'a wicked, adulterous generation.' (Matthew 11:16; 12:39, 45; 16:4; 17:17; 23:36) So when, on the Mount of Olives, he again spoke of "this generation," he evidently did not mean the entire race of Jews throughout history; nor did he mean his followers, even though they were "a chosen race." (1 Peter 2:9) Neither was Jesus saying that "this generation" is a period of time.

Rather, Jesus had in mind the opposing Jews back then who would experience the fulfillment of the sign he gave. Regarding the reference to "this generation" at Luke 21:32, Professor Joel B. Green notes: "In the Third Gospel, 'this generation' (and related phrases) has regularly signified a category of people who are resistant to the purpose of God. . . . [It refers] to people who stubbornly turn their backs on the divine purpose." *

The wicked generation of Jewish opposers who could observe the sign being fulfilled would also experience the end. (Matthew 24:6, 13, 14) And that they did! In 70 C.E., the Roman army returned, led by Titus, son of Emperor Vespasian. The suffering of the Jews who were again bottled up in the city is almost beyond belief." Eyewitness Flavius Josephus reports that by the time the Romans demolished the city, about 1,100,000 Jews had died and some 100,000 were taken captive, most of those soon to perish horribly from starvation or in Roman theaters. Truly, the tribulation of 66-70 C.E. was the greatest that Jerusalem and the Jewish system had ever experienced or would ever experience. How different the outcome was for Christians who had heeded Jesus' prophetic warning and had left Jerusalem after the departure of the Roman armies in 66 C.E.!; ___________________
\

Matthew 24: 1 -35 is prophecy fulfilled which is not repeatable. Matt 24:31, Luke 21:24

All these things happened to Christ's generation; "this generation" always referred to his own in the gospels; "this" not "that" or "this and that" generation. "These stones" can not come down again; the armies (abomination) that caused such desolation are long gone; those in Judaea will not have to flee to the hills again or be slain by swords or shipped off to all nations where they are today.

60

Sign of the Last Days

by Fisherman in

in the sermon on the mount, jesus foretold that earthquakes “in one place after another” would be part of the sign of the last days clímaxing in the great tribulation.. what could jesus possibly have meant?

using a phone app nowadays, there are earthquakes detected in one place after another but is this what jesus meant and did they have so many earthquakes throughout the centuries affter his prophecy or are these modern day detected earthquakes unique to this epoch?

how can we be sure unequivocally that modern day earthquakes are part of the sign fulfilling bible prophecy?.

Vanderhoven7

Re: Matthew 24

6. AND YE SHALL HEAR OF WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS:
SEE THAT YE BE NOT TROUBLED; FOR ALL THESE THINGS
MUST COME TO PASS, BUT THE END IS NOT YET.

Comments: Were these preliminary signs fulfilled prior to 70AD?

WARS: B.N. There was much civil strife and many uprisings in the
Roman Empire in the first century It is recorded in the histories of
Rome, that the most violent agitations prevailed in the Roman
empire previous to the destruction of Jerusalem. Four emperors,
Nero, Galba, Otho and Vitellius, suffered violent deaths in the short
space of 18 months. In consequence of these changes in the
government, there were commotions and bloody and violent warring
throughout the empire

COMMENTS: Were these signs present prior to Jerusalem's destruction?

NATION... AGAINST NATION AND KINGDOM AGAINST KINGDOM:
In Caesarea, Jews and Syrians had disagreements that ended in the
expulsion of the Jews and the slaying of about 20,000 of them. 20,000
more were slain in nearby areas because of problems related to the
expulsion. In Alexandria, about 50,000 Jews were slain, and in
Damascus 10,000. The Roman Empire continued to wage wars to
suppress uprisings; the worst war occurring between 66-70 AD.
In Josephus' "Wars, Book II" we see that Cestius was defeated by
the Jews. In February 67, Nero appointed Vespasian to wage war
in Palestine, deploying 60,000 men in Galilee. He fought through till
Autumn 67 and prepared through the winter for a final attack in June 68.
He had to wait after Nero's suicide in 68 but later once again took
control of Hebron. The war was again interrupted as Vespasian
returned to Rome. Titus was sent to resume the war in 69 and the
final critical 134 day siege of Jerusalem began,

PESTILENCES: Raging epidemic diseases often attended famine.
Severe pestilences were recorded in Babylonia AD 40 (Josephus)
and also Italy, AD 66 (Tacitus) prior to Jerusalem's destruction.

EARTHQUAKES: Many earthquakes preceded th destruction of
Jerusalem. Tactitus mentions one in the reign of Claudius, at
Rome; during the reign of Neroin the cities of Laodicea,
Hierapolis, and Colosse; and the celebrated Pompeii was
overwhelmed, and almost destroyed by an earthquake. Others
are mentioned as occurring at Smyrna, Miletus, Chios and Samos.

BEGINNING OF SORROWS: Far greater calamities were to
come prior to the end.

DELIVER YOU UP TO BE AFFLICTED: by persecution, prison,
scourging MARK'S GOSPEL ADDS, "THEY SHALL DELIVER
YOU UP TO THE COUNCILS SYNAGOGUES, RULERS AND
KINGS FOR HIS NAMES SAKE".COUNCIL: Peter and John were

brought before the Sanhedrim (Acts 4:5,6,7).

BEFORE SYNAGOGUES, RULERS AND KINGS
(see Acts 4:3; Paul and Silas before magistrates
(Acts 16:23, 24). Paul was brought before Gallio
Acts 18:12; Felix Acts 24:24, Agrippa Acts 25:23

AND SHALL KILL YOU: Stephen was the first martyr;
he was stoned after council judgment Acts 7:59
James was killed by Herod. Acts 12:2

Many Christians perished under Nero, including most
of the apostles (Luke's account adds that He would give
them wisdom which none of their adversaries could
gainsay or resist Lu.21:14-15) Stephen before the
Sanhedrin & Paul before Felix.

43

Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?

by Sea Breeze in

no mystery here.

they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.

so, why all the muck and fuss?

Vanderhoven7

My take is that the 144,000 symbolically represent the entire church of God...which are described as an innumerable group of sanctified believers. The hearing and then seeing is a literary device John uses to display the images in Revelation. Like he hears the Lion and turns and sees the Lamb.

125

Mandated Shunning is a Crime

by Lee Marsh in

mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

Vanderhoven7

"The simplest (and, IMO, most elegant) solution is initiate legislation that any organization who shuns - religious or secular - becomes ineligible for charity status / tax exemption."

Perfect solution VI.

60

Sign of the Last Days

by Fisherman in

in the sermon on the mount, jesus foretold that earthquakes “in one place after another” would be part of the sign of the last days clímaxing in the great tribulation.. what could jesus possibly have meant?

using a phone app nowadays, there are earthquakes detected in one place after another but is this what jesus meant and did they have so many earthquakes throughout the centuries affter his prophecy or are these modern day detected earthquakes unique to this epoch?

how can we be sure unequivocally that modern day earthquakes are part of the sign fulfilling bible prophecy?.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Sue,

So the composite sign Jesus gave wasn't really about wars and rumours of wars and nation rising against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

He was really saying you will know that I am present when you see a significant increase in the conflict between good and evil, a widespread absence of spiritual truth, spiritual sickness and mental disease and political upheavals in different places....which all clearly came to pass starting in 1914.

Do you have any confirmation of this symbolism in the Watchtower or Awake?