Son out?

by Nantiques in

jw
friends

our son joined the wts 20 years ago.

we, his parents and siblings are not jws.

he is now 41. he knew we were "opposers" from the beginning, and so we were pretty much shunned by him.

Vanderhoven7

Longish hair, beard, contacting opposers, reuniting with family, apologizing for shunning behavior...

Yup, he is free at last! Congratulations Dad!

2

Waking up your Spouse!

by Vanderhoven7 in

this guy seems authentic to me.

what do you think.. https://youtu.be/p8o0slyi-ya?feature=shared.

Vanderhoven7

This guy seems authentic to me. What do you think.

https://youtu.be/p8O0slYi-yA?feature=shared

3

How to talk to former Witnesses about their beliefs.

by Vanderhoven7 in

mark jones writes.

there have been only a handful of occasions where a jehovah’s witness has successfully engaged me in respectable conversation with mutual respect.

one such person started off like this and (unfortunately) has become an angry little man over the years.

There have been only a handful of occasions where a Jehovah’s Witness has successfully engaged me in respectable conversation with mutual respect. One such person started off like this and (unfortunately) has become an angry little man over the years. I can only imagine its because Armageddon hasn't come when it was supposed to be “imminent” 6 years ago.

If you really, sincerely wish to talk to me and other former Jehovah’s Witnesses about your beliefs your best bet would be the following:

Understand that, despite what your magazines and governing body have told you, we didn't all leave because we “wish to sin”, “could not live up to “bible” standards” or “committed immorality”. Going in with a mindset like that sets you up to fail because you’ll think you’re talking to someone less “holy” or less worthy than yourself.
Understand that, literally, all of us love truth. Which is actually why many of us left. We simply believe that the Jehovah’s Witness religion is not true. I’ve no doubt that you believe it’s true, but I dont believe that it is. And we can talk about that if you wish. What was it that I learned that you haven't learned yet? But that's ok we can still be friends. I was at a Sikh wedding last weekend. I’m not a Sikh. And that’s ok. They invited me anyway and we enjoyed the day (and the food!).
If you think we’re wrong, simply show us why. Using Watchtower publications isn't going to make any different because, (see (2)) we dont believe the Watchtower society is publishing truth. Instead, use outside sources, or ask what we believe and why and how we developed our beliefs. If you work from there you’ll have us questioning our own ideas - which is good. We’re interested in truth and want to be corrected if we’re wrong. I’d hate to get to 80 years old and only then someone coming along and showing me I’ve been living a life based on error.
Most of us dont claim to have “the” truth. At least, the ones in the atheist camp dont anyway. So asking us “where should we go?” or “if this isn't the truth, what is?” is a nothing question to us. (In fact, we’d likely remind you that Peter asked Jesus “to whom should we go?” not “where”). Personally, I dont tell people what to do. As an existentialist it literally goes against my morals and standards. I’d rather people think it out for themselves, take their time and go where the evidence leads them.
Don’t assume we’re all the same. We’re not. When we left the Jehovah’s Witnesses (which many of us consider a high control group) we tend to have an aversion to leaders or following other people. There are several people within the exJW “community” (if there is such a thing) who are unpopular and divisive.
A lot of us will know Watchtower literature very well. Reason being, we were very much full believers. We were interested in truth even back then. It was this love for truth which made us avid readers and researchers when we believed the Watchtower society was printing truth. Eventually, that thirst for truth takes an honest hearted Jehovah’s Witness to objective research and they eventually learn it isnt true at all.
Not all of us jump back into “pagan” practices. Some people do because they’re eager to express their freedom and blend in with the rest of society. Some born-in Jehovah’s Witnesses who leave dont celebrate Christmas or birthdays at all and have an aversion to it because they have no memories of ever celebrating it and dont understand why people do it. In my case, I dont celebrate Christmas. My wife and kids do. I observe Saturnalia, which is the original festival without any connotation to Jesus. The difference is mine lasts longer. But we all acknowledge that we have no belief in any gods and it’s more of a nice thing to do in December. Hell, we’d celebrate Holi if there was an opportunity to in the UK.

176

No more REPORTING field service!!!!!!!!!

by BoogerMan in

this is going to break the hearts of a lot of uber-jw's!

reddit has now removed the video link of samuel herd telling jw's they will no longer have to report time or placements - just tick a box which says "active.".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akdshyx79rm&t=13s.

Vanderhoven7

Y writes

While no former or current JW actually knows, we can only speculate. My speculation is that the Annual reports after Covid have not improved. Hours are way down according to the last couple years. The easiest way to fix this problem is to only track if someone participated in the ministry or did not. This will bring the publisher count up and perhaps to new highs. Otherwise, there is no good reason for the JWs to stop doing this. There were countless articles when I was in that explained why detailed reports were required and necessary. All sorts of reasons such as Jehovah being a God of order, how necessary preaching work changes could be made from this info.

The real reason for the reports were for accountability and proof of Jehovah blessing the organization using those statistics. The Kingdom ministry would publish a monthly report for your country and most importantly a “national average.” Most appointments within a congregation used the national average as the bare minimum for anyone to get appointed within the congregation. So I would guess that getting in good with the Elders is even more important now if you’re pursuing an appointment. But this is VERY counter to the preaching work being sped up. That line has been used many times over the decades.

Two rounds of bethel layoffs had that line attached to justify the need to downsize. Now the preaching work is becoming a formality. Instead of pursuing people, they stand at a cart and talk to no one. Now you just put down on a report whether you participated or not. The urgency is gone. The biggest change though is not the field service reports but the fact that the Great Tribulation is no longer the cutoff on whether you can make it through Armageddon. Now people can become JWs or even repent well into the Great Tribulation. If you’re a critical thinker, then you can wait to see if anything the JWs preach actually ever came true. Then throw your hat in if you desire. No reason to commit to an organization until they actually produced factual evidence of being right.

83

Thought on “0 hours” reporting

by FFGhost in

so everyone knows the “big news” of this past weekend, no more reporting of hours, placements, return visits, etc.

beginning november 1, jws just tick a box indicating whether they “shared in any form of the ministry during the month”.. so there was a brief comment by a redditor that seems like a brief joke “throwaway comment” but after thinking about it….why not?.

the idea is, what is “any form of the ministry”?

Vanderhoven7

@Ding

Yes, but saying Hi to a disfellowshipped one would not allow you to tick any boxes.

24

This answers the question if the organization was going to go more Hardline or mainstream.

by nowwhat? in

looks like we can expect a kinder, gentler jehovah and jesus during the great tribulation.

the door will not be closed to all non jws at the start of the tribulation.

but will have time to repent after false religion is destroyed.

Vanderhoven7

Not about going mainstream

https://youtu.be/sjRUTytxwd8?si=bGUAzyeAVfTG8Y1g

24

This answers the question if the organization was going to go more Hardline or mainstream.

by nowwhat? in

looks like we can expect a kinder, gentler jehovah and jesus during the great tribulation.

the door will not be closed to all non jws at the start of the tribulation.

but will have time to repent after false religion is destroyed.

Vanderhoven7

@nowwhat

Is the idea that it may not be too late for people to repent after the GT starts found in recent WT publications?

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Vanderhoven7

The Time Of The Gentiles

Dan Delagrave

"And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." (Luke 21:24)

There has been much misunderstanding in the modern Church concerning "the times of the Gentiles." The correct interpretation must be consistent with both the immediate context and the greater weight of scripture.

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." (Luke 21:32)

"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh . . . and Jerusalem shall be trodden down (pateho) of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." (Luke 21:20, 24)

The times of the Gentiles referred to the treading down, or desolation, of first century Jerusalem, which Jesus called "the days of vengeance". In other words, it was God's mission for the Gentiles to bring judgment upon Jerusalem. This is consistent with past judgments upon Israel, when God brought Gentiles armies into their land to desolate it.

The whole controversy centers on the duration of the treading down of Jerusalem. The Greek for "trodden" is pat-eh'-o (#3961 in Strong's Concordance), and it means "to trample down underfoot". The parallel to Lk.21:24 is seen in Revelation 11:2, which says:

"But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot (pateho) forty and two months." Rev 11:2

Could it be any plainer? The times of the Gentiles, or treading down of Jerusalem, entailed no more than a forty two month period of time, the exact duration of the Jewish-Roman War. This is in perfect harmony with Daniel 12:7, where the defining characteristic of "the time of the end" is said to be "the scattering of the power of the holy people", which we are told would be accomplished during "a time, times, and a half", or forty two months.

176

No more REPORTING field service!!!!!!!!!

by BoogerMan in

this is going to break the hearts of a lot of uber-jw's!

reddit has now removed the video link of samuel herd telling jw's they will no longer have to report time or placements - just tick a box which says "active.".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akdshyx79rm&t=13s.

Vanderhoven7

Freya says

Soon enough it will become clear that this is a legal move. Watchtower already has issues in the courts. It is an attempt to avoid the concept of “agents” and limit litigation. This is why the term “members” has been dropped. If congregants are not members and are not agents who report their activity to Watchtower, the organisation cannot be held liable in the courts for anything these people do.

176

No more REPORTING field service!!!!!!!!!

by BoogerMan in

this is going to break the hearts of a lot of uber-jw's!

reddit has now removed the video link of samuel herd telling jw's they will no longer have to report time or placements - just tick a box which says "active.".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akdshyx79rm&t=13s.

Vanderhoven7

Norris says

"It’s vital to the organisation that a positive image is shown, and why they are so overly protective against critics, whistleblowers and apostates.

Is there really a sudden need to change something that’s been done for years ? Why now ?

Regardless of how this will be spun in J.W land, the reason can only be a coverup of poor statistics, instead of having to show a poor yearly report, they can now say we no longer collect the data."

Vanderhoven7

Posts by Vanderhoven7

The Time Of The Gentiles