Posts by Vanderhoven7

25

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS STUPID: a special category of ignorance

by Terry in

worse than being stupid is thinking you are smart while you are stupid.. i should know.. for many years i was a special category of "stupid"; i was jehovah's witness stupid.. .

what does that entail?

listen and i'll tell you.. ___________________________________________________________.

Vanderhoven7

Jehovah's Witnesses encourage their members

5

Questionable Claims and/or Actions of The Governing Body

by Vanderhoven7 in

here are a few of the questionable claims and actions of the gb that i have noticed:.

a. writing themselves into the salvation formula.

b. claiming they are jehovah's unique channel of communication.

Vanderhoven7

Here are a few of the questionable claims and actions of the GB that I have noticed:

a. writing themselves into the salvation formula

b. claiming they are Jehovah's unique channel of communication

c. asserting that no one who rejects their authority is a real Christian

d. determining that 99% of those martyred for the name of Christ prior to the 20th century were only professed Christians

e. denying all the benefits of justification to 8 million so called modern other sheep

f. mandating shunning of former Jehovah's Witnesses

g. claiming that those who don’t trust them, don’t trust Jehovah.

Please add to this list.

135

Rumour 144,000 literal number teaching to be abandoned at Annual Meeting

by slimboyfat in

say it ain’t so!

.

in one sense it’s a no brainer because the figures just don’t add up any more.. in another (negative) sense it’s a no brainer because it’s been fundamental to jws since year dot and might undermine the whole thing?

Vanderhoven7

Gotta stop counting the anointed.

125

Mandated Shunning is a Crime

by Lee Marsh in

mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

Vanderhoven7

Norway had the right idea to deal with mandated shunning. Remove their charitable status.

22

WHEN WILL THE ANOINTED BE TAKEN TO HEAVEN

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/sptboe8_kuc?si=cnb837qqdlm1glx0.

this is a question that has preoccupied the minds of the governing body " when will the last anointed be taken up to heaven?

" when did this nonsense begin ?

Vanderhoven7

Thanks for the correction Earnest. Now, as with other things, "We just don't know." applies. Add to that, "but we pretended to know for the past 70 years".

22

WHEN WILL THE ANOINTED BE TAKEN TO HEAVEN

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/sptboe8_kuc?si=cnb837qqdlm1glx0.

this is a question that has preoccupied the minds of the governing body " when will the last anointed be taken up to heaven?

" when did this nonsense begin ?

Vanderhoven7

Saint Peter apparently was raised in the spring of 1918.

1918: This year is critical to current Watch Tower eschatology. Firstly, in the spring of 1918, the first resurrection commenced and the apostles and faithful anointed ones who had died were raised invisibly to heavenly life.

“The resurrection of the anointed Christians, who number 144,000, is to spirit life in heaven and it began to occur in 1918 C.E., after the establishment of the heavenly Kingdom in 1914.“ WT June 1, 1970 p. 331 "Faith to the Preserving Alive of the Soul”

“In 1918 he (the apostle Peter) was resurrected to the heavens along with the other faithful members of Christ’s congregation who had died prior to that time. “(WT February 15, 1966 p. 123 “Does Peter Now Use the Keys of the Kingdom?”

“Those who died prior to the establishment of the Kingdom were resurrected at the time of Jehovah's coming to the temple with his messenger of the covenant in 1918.” WT 67 8/1 p. 455 A New Administration of Earth's Affairs

“The Watchtower has long presented the view that this resurrection of anointed Christians from death commenced in the year 1918.” WT 86 10/1 p. 14 Comfort From the God of Peace

Curiously though, for close to 50 years prior to 1927, the Watch Tower Society, based on other eschatological calculations, taught that the first resurrection began in 1878.

In 1878 the process of setting up the kingdom began. The Lord raised the sleeping saints. WT 6/1/1922, p.174

Our Lord's resurrection occurred three and a half years after his advent as the Messiah, in A.D. 29; and the resurrection of his body, the Church, we have seen, was due in the year 1878, three and a half years after his second advent, in October 1874." Thy Kingdom Come p. 305

It was only in 1927 that that the date for the first resurrection was changed to 1918

"One of the many enlightening truths that God now gave his witnesses was about the members of God's spiritual nation who had died physically. This was in 1927. In that year the witnesses understood that the dead spiritual Israelites had been raised in 1918 to life in heaven with Christ Jesus. It was an invisible resurrection, of course." From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained p.192

135

Rumour 144,000 literal number teaching to be abandoned at Annual Meeting

by slimboyfat in

say it ain’t so!

.

in one sense it’s a no brainer because the figures just don’t add up any more.. in another (negative) sense it’s a no brainer because it’s been fundamental to jws since year dot and might undermine the whole thing?

Vanderhoven7

Such a major change would be a disappointing blow to the rank and file that I think would result in serious hemorrhaging.

41

Is Watchtower totally off base on Armageddon?

by Vanderhoven7 in

to me it is quite evident that the gt spoken about in matthew 24, mark 13 and luke 21 is a one time, non-repeatable localized event resulting in the destruction of jerusalem and the temple followed by the dispersion of surviving jews throughout the nations.. however, what is not so clear to most is that the gt of revelation deals with the same event.

my understanding is that the gb of jehovah witnesses has no clue as to how to interpret the apocalyptic messages found both in the synoptics and revelation.

but steve greg has armageddon down pat.

Vanderhoven7

@Aclue

Notice that the sun darkening takes place immediately after the tribulation of AD 70

Of course this is figurative language often associated with apocalyptic literature.

29. IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS SHALL THE SUN B E DARKENED, AND THE MOON NOT GIVE HER LIGHT, AND THE STARS SHALL FALL FROM HEAVEN, AND THE POWERS OF THE HEAVENS SHALL BE SHAKEN:

Most people assume the vivid language must describe the end of the world. But notice that this apocalyptic language is preceded by the word "IMMEDIATELY". It was immediately after the tribulation of those days that the sun would be darkened etc. The Jewish nation was about to be darkened; virtually obliterated. God, in His righteous wrath was removing the Jewish nation from His heavens. As the moon, Judaism would no longer reflect the Light of God; its stars, the prophets and Fathers would no longer shine for Israel of the flesh.

QUESTION: Can we be justified in stating that the sun, moon and stars are figurative of Judaism and its glories?

WHEN WE LET SCRIPTURE INTERPRET SCRIPTURE, we find the same language in the OT depicting the destruction of Babylon , Egypt, Tyre and Idumea.

Is.13:9, 10 is a prediction of God's judgment on Babylon "Behold the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and and fierce anger to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

If the Holy Spirit speaking through the prophet Isaiah uses such figurative language to describe the downfall of a heathen nation like Babylon, how much more would not such language be used to describe the downfall of the chosen nation of Israel?

Is.34:4,5 Regarding the destruction of the insignificant nation of Idumea, Isaiah writes: “And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll...For my sword shall be bathed in heaven; behold it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.”

If the Holy Spirit speaking through the prophet Isaiah uses such figurative language to describe the downfall of such an insignificant nation as Idumea, how much more would not such language be used to describe the downfall of the chosen nation of Israel?

Ez.32:2, 7,8 Ezekiel's prediction of God's judgment on Egypt incorporates similar vivid language. “Son of man, take up a lamentation for Pharaoh king of Egypt... And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and I will make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord God.

If the Holy Spirit speaking through the prophet Ezekiel uses such figurative language to describe the downfall of a heathen nation like Egypt, how much more would not such language be used tobdescribe the downfall of the chosen nation of Israel? Acts 32:16-21 Is.19:1 Ps.97:2,3 Mat.26:64

OF COURSE THIS LANGUAGE CAN AND DOES APPLY TO ISRAEL. Dan.7:13 says: I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Dan.8:10-11, speaking of the conquest of Rome over Israel, says: “And it (one horn) waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped on them. Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary cast down. (See also Jer.4:26 Mt.26:64 Mat.16:28)

41

Is Watchtower totally off base on Armageddon?

by Vanderhoven7 in

to me it is quite evident that the gt spoken about in matthew 24, mark 13 and luke 21 is a one time, non-repeatable localized event resulting in the destruction of jerusalem and the temple followed by the dispersion of surviving jews throughout the nations.. however, what is not so clear to most is that the gt of revelation deals with the same event.

my understanding is that the gb of jehovah witnesses has no clue as to how to interpret the apocalyptic messages found both in the synoptics and revelation.

but steve greg has armageddon down pat.

Vanderhoven7

I believe the Lord Jesus Christ appeared a number of times in Old Testament times. Jehovah appeared in human form to Abraham, to Moses in the burning bush, to Nebuchadnezzar in the fiery furnace, to Samson's parents etc.

The high priest saw Jesus coming in power in Judgment against Jerusalem. Don't forget, in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 Jesus provides answers to more than one question. In Matthew 24:1-35 Jesus deals with His coming (erchomai) in judgment against Jerusalem as predicted in a number of His parables. The disciples were warned not to confuse the two judgments (end of Jerusalem i.e. temple destruction/ with worldwide judgment at the end of the world). He warns the disciples that Jerusalem's judgment would not include the parousia (personal return of Christ) secret or otherwise to rescue them. In contrast, His parousia (second personal coming) at the end of time would not require talk of secret presence, but clear to all worldwide.

The great tribulation however is a one-time,non-repeatable event in hisory; a fairly local event affecting the Jews in and around Jerusalem and leading to their death or dispersion among the nations.

Be sure to enjoy Sammy on Matt 24

https://youtu.be/02TDusWd720?si=GBhV5ADzMJDQLPk0

41

Is Watchtower totally off base on Armageddon?

by Vanderhoven7 in

to me it is quite evident that the gt spoken about in matthew 24, mark 13 and luke 21 is a one time, non-repeatable localized event resulting in the destruction of jerusalem and the temple followed by the dispersion of surviving jews throughout the nations.. however, what is not so clear to most is that the gt of revelation deals with the same event.

my understanding is that the gb of jehovah witnesses has no clue as to how to interpret the apocalyptic messages found both in the synoptics and revelation.

but steve greg has armageddon down pat.

Vanderhoven7

@Vidqun,

" I'll stick to Matthew's version. Jesus' Second Coming is definitely a future event (cf. Matt. 24:29-31)."

Yes, the Parousia is a future event that will affect the whole world rather than just Jerusalem and Judaea. See verses 36 on.

Jesus separated these two judgments carefully. One you could flee from, one you could not, one you should know the exact time, one know one knows, one had many signs, one would be a total surprise, one would be in tumultuous times, one would be in normal times, people carrying on with normal activities, marrying, working in fields, one you would have to run from, one you would be taken from.