Posts by Vanderhoven7

8

Was Hell Consistently Taught from Genesis to Revelation?

by Sea Breeze in

some sources cite that the word or concept of hell appears 167 times in the old and new testament.

jesus spoke about hell more than anyone else.

how can such consistent warnings by many different writers over 1600 years all be parables?

Vanderhoven7

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE FACTS THAT BECOME APPARENT ABOUT SHEOL?

Sheol is located downward in the dust of the earth. (Job 17:13-16)

Both the good and the bad go to Sheol.

Jacob and his sons go to Sheol. (Gen.42:38)

David planned to rest in Sheol. (Ps.16:9-10)

David desired his enemies also go down to Sheol, not in peace, but in blood. (I Kings 2:6,9)

By going to Sheol, Job misses God's wrath.

Job actually asks to be hidden in Sheol to escape God's anger. (Job 14:13)

The terms death, the grave, and destruction are so closely bound

as to be often interchangeable in the text (Pr.15:11, 24; 27:20).

Not too much goes on in Sheol.

There is no wisdom or knowledge there and no activity or work for those who go down to silence. (Eccl.9:10 Ps.6:5 Ps. 31:17)

No person praises God from Sheol (Ps.6:5; 88:10-12)

Figurative language is often associated with Sheol.

Beds are made In Sheol. Maggots are spread beneath the dead and worms cover them like a blanket. (Is.14:11)

Sheol is even personified. It is pictured as snatching sinners and robbing people of their remaining years. (Job 24:19);

Sheol has an appetite. It opens its mouth without limit.

It is never satisfied. (Pr.27:20) Sheol is naked before God. (Job.26:6)

Not only is Sheol personified, but it is also presented in satire, while incorporating some of the mythological views of Babylon and Egypt, to ridicule special visitors. Sheol, for example, is said to stir up dead kings, and have them rise from their thrones and welcome Israel's enemies. (Is.14:9,11,15; Ez.32: 21,24,27) These same leaders are also personified for dramatic purposes and pictured as carrying on a conversation in Sheol while still engaged in their lifetime pursuits, i.e., ruling.

MOST IMPORTANT: God will redeem souls from Sheol's power. (Ps.49:15)

Sheol will not have the last word. Sheol is going to be plagued and death is going to be destroyed! (Hos.13:14 KJV) Sheol is not eternal therefore, but temporary. God is with the righteous in Sheol and His promise is not to abandon them there forever. (Ps.16:10; 139:8)

8

Was Hell Consistently Taught from Genesis to Revelation?

by Sea Breeze in

some sources cite that the word or concept of hell appears 167 times in the old and new testament.

jesus spoke about hell more than anyone else.

how can such consistent warnings by many different writers over 1600 years all be parables?

Vanderhoven7

There is one word in the Old Testament (OT) that is translated as hell. That word is the Hebrew word "Sheol". Sheol appears 65 times in the OT.

In the King James Version (KJV), Sheol is translated 31 times as hell; 31 times as grave and 3 times as pit.

In the New International Version (NIV) Sheol was translated 57 times as grave; 7 times as death and once as depths.

4

Watchtower Humanitarian Aid

by Vanderhoven7 in

witnesses do not give to charities.

mm writes:.

"they are specifically told to only donate to the watchtower organization to let the organization handle disaster relief.

Vanderhoven7

Witnesses do not give to charities. MM writes:

"They are specifically told to ONLY donate to the watchtower organization to let the organization handle disaster relief. The only money that goes toward disaster relief is to repair buildings owned by the watchtower corporation. But they get it returned with extra when the insurance pays out because they used volunteer labor and some donated supplies. The same goes for jehovah witness homes. Note how they brag about the money they use for such things, then compare that amount to a comparably sized charity, Wycliffe Bible Translators, and also to a very small charity, Food Bank of Central and Eastern North Carolina. The difference should make jehovah witnesses feel ashamed, but jehovah witnesses are actually proud of it, sad to say.

https://youtu.be/4RDh7RleLUw

50

Who will Survive Armageddon?

by Vanderhoven7 in

breaking news....there is hope for good hearted non-jws!!!.

according to sergio:.

are jehovah's witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?.

Vanderhoven7

The GB has no shame for saying things like:

“That now-operating kingdom in heaven will, within the twentieth century, cleanse the entire earth of wickedness. … Revelation 16:16 calls it the "war of the great day of God the Almighty," Armageddon. This war will come in the twentieth century. It will come right on schedule, as have the wars, food shortages, earthquakes and other events foretold. This generation will see its fulfillment." Awake! 1961 Feb 22 pp.5-8

"Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah 1971 p.216

And Witnesses still think God is backing them. That's what you get for trusting the false promises of men.

23

NEW LEAKED ANNUAL MEETING VIDEO :KENNETH COOK :THE DISFELLOSHIPPING IS NOT GOING AWAY ANYTIME SOON

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/6ga9v7ffrwk?si=0lor5qquapmq8ck4.

what you are about to watch is another leaked instalment from the recent annual meeting delivered by kenneth cook with the theme "help to tear down and build up" and highlights tge new take o disfellowshipping that will from now concentrate on major wrongdoing whereas minor wrongdoing will be dealt with kind and love.so the watchtower's at it again, rewriting the narrative like an old tv show that conveniently forgets a character's past.

for decades, the organization has been the ultimate gatekeeper, quick to kick out members for even minor missteps—let's not forget how jehovah's witnesses have had to grovel and practically beg to be reinstated.

Vanderhoven7

I have not seen anything in WT literature that changes the following quotations.

Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19

"Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah's universal organization." Watchtower 2006 May 15 p.22 "Are You Prepared for Survival?"

"Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it." Watchtower 1983 Feb 15 p.12

"... to leave Jehovah's organization ... we would lose not only the privilege of doing God's will but also the hope of life in God's new world." Watchtower 2016 Jun study ed p.26

"But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy." Watchtower 1993 Sep 15 p.22

"They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah's organization is essential to their salvation." Kingdom Ministry 1990 Nov p.1

"At this stage of the affairs of man, it is absolutely impossible for anyone, professed Christian or otherwise, to stand independently of the one organisation that is bearing witness worldwide to Jehovah, his goodness and supremacy in accord with the 145th Psalm and, in fact, in accord with all the Scriptures." Yearbook 1982 p.259

23

NEW LEAKED ANNUAL MEETING VIDEO :KENNETH COOK :THE DISFELLOSHIPPING IS NOT GOING AWAY ANYTIME SOON

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/6ga9v7ffrwk?si=0lor5qquapmq8ck4.

what you are about to watch is another leaked instalment from the recent annual meeting delivered by kenneth cook with the theme "help to tear down and build up" and highlights tge new take o disfellowshipping that will from now concentrate on major wrongdoing whereas minor wrongdoing will be dealt with kind and love.so the watchtower's at it again, rewriting the narrative like an old tv show that conveniently forgets a character's past.

for decades, the organization has been the ultimate gatekeeper, quick to kick out members for even minor missteps—let's not forget how jehovah's witnesses have had to grovel and practically beg to be reinstated.

Vanderhoven7

If a Witness says, God will destroy all non-JWs alive at Armageddon or before, then as it stands, 8 billion will be destroyed during the GT and Armageddon… which is not good for PR and certainly not sustainable from scripture.

On the other hand, if they say some who name the name of Christ from other churches can survive Armageddon, then faith or trust in the Govering Body is and never was a criteria for salvation or survival. Can't say that either.

Saying I don't know if repentance is possible after the Tribulation starts changes nothing about the outcome for non-JWs.

JWs need to stop humming and hawing, deferring to the website, pretending and speaking out of both sides of their mouths and start boldly proclaiming their beliefs that even they feel uncomfortable holding and explaining.

7

Why I dislike eschatology

by Riley in

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ouye3e0fypc&t=183s&pp=yguzd2h5igkgzglzbglrzsblc2noyxrvbg9neq%3d%3d.

please take the time to watch.

i am not good with words but i have heard someone so eloquently explain how i feel about something.

Vanderhoven7

@ Riley

Excellent video! Clear and edifying.

Have you seen any of Steve Gregg's videos. He has an excellent video on the four views on Revelation.

https://youtu.be/yPjCSa3VRFo?t=39

23

NEW LEAKED ANNUAL MEETING VIDEO :KENNETH COOK :THE DISFELLOSHIPPING IS NOT GOING AWAY ANYTIME SOON

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/6ga9v7ffrwk?si=0lor5qquapmq8ck4.

what you are about to watch is another leaked instalment from the recent annual meeting delivered by kenneth cook with the theme "help to tear down and build up" and highlights tge new take o disfellowshipping that will from now concentrate on major wrongdoing whereas minor wrongdoing will be dealt with kind and love.so the watchtower's at it again, rewriting the narrative like an old tv show that conveniently forgets a character's past.

for decades, the organization has been the ultimate gatekeeper, quick to kick out members for even minor missteps—let's not forget how jehovah's witnesses have had to grovel and practically beg to be reinstated.

Vanderhoven7

Yes, but the question i asked myself is.... why did they change their position on this issue?

My take is that it represents an attempt at damage control since they have repeatedly written that God will automatically and eternally destroy billions during the Tribulation or at Armageddon, simply because they are not Jehovah's Witnesses. And yet, if they died before the Great Tribulation starts these non-Witnesses automatically get a resurrection into a safe new system.

And now Witnesses can say, maybe billions won't die; we don't know... after all Jesus is the judge, He judges the heart, not us...so we can't say exactly who will survive....there are plenty who have not heard our message yet.blah, blah, blah. You just are not up to date on our current understanding etc.

Then you have to corner them by saying....so one does not have to associate with an organization with headquarters in New York to survive the GT and Armageddon - that's wonderful! I agree fully... Then they accuse you of twisting their words. Then you are free tell them they can't have it both ways.

By the way, I believe Armageddon happened in 70 AD.

23

NEW LEAKED ANNUAL MEETING VIDEO :KENNETH COOK :THE DISFELLOSHIPPING IS NOT GOING AWAY ANYTIME SOON

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/6ga9v7ffrwk?si=0lor5qquapmq8ck4.

what you are about to watch is another leaked instalment from the recent annual meeting delivered by kenneth cook with the theme "help to tear down and build up" and highlights tge new take o disfellowshipping that will from now concentrate on major wrongdoing whereas minor wrongdoing will be dealt with kind and love.so the watchtower's at it again, rewriting the narrative like an old tv show that conveniently forgets a character's past.

for decades, the organization has been the ultimate gatekeeper, quick to kick out members for even minor missteps—let's not forget how jehovah's witnesses have had to grovel and practically beg to be reinstated.

Vanderhoven7

There is a reason that the GB is now admitting ignorance regarding the ability of sinners to repent after the GT starts. They lose nothing but gain the appearance of bring humble and hopeful.

But the outcome is still the same. The fact that they admit they don't know means zip when it comes to relieving the fear of it being too late to repent. Still better repent and come back to the organization now in case.

42

LEAKED ANNUAL MEETING VIDEO :EXPECT SUDDEN CHANGES: JEFFREY JACKSON

by raymond frantz in

jw
friends

https://youtu.be/uxqqyrrffow?si=wo0jotyvjg76oljk.

well that's sort of related to the next talk on our program brother jeffrey jackson will discuss the theme don't be surprised by sudden changes, brother jeff you have our.

attention well i'm sure we all agree with this fact in recent years there have been a lot of changes even since the last annual meeting there have been many changes some of them perhaps are a little surprising or may seem to be sudden but you know brothers and sisters when we look back on how these changes have come we can see that jehovah has gradually prepared us for each of these adjustments and changes let's review some of the recent changes we've had what changes have we seen with regard to our understand understanding of bible teachings at the 2021 annual meeting we received an adjusted understanding of john 529 it was explained that the resurrection of judgment will not be a judgment of condemnation rather it will be more like a period of probation the unrighteous mentioned at acts 24:15 will have an opportunity to gain everlasting life but their names will not be written wr in the book of life at the time of their resurrection to have their names eventually written in that book these ones will need to respond positively to the great educational work that will take place during the thousand-year reign then at the annual meeting in 2023 we gained enhanced insight into what we do know and what we don't know concerning jehovah's judgments we learned that the door of opportunity for people to take a stand for the kingdom does not shut when the great tribulation starts with the destruction of false religion at that time perhaps some will be like the egyptians in moses day who took a last minute stand and joined the exodus of god's people at the same annual meeting we adjusted our views with regard to jehovah's judgments of those who died in the flood and those who were destroyed in sodom and gomorrah also at that annual meeting an adjustment was made regarding the reporting of our time and activity in our preaching work instead of focusing on reports we try to make good use of every opportunity to witness then we receive the 2024 governing body update number two in that update we saw the need to adjust how we interact with those who have committed serious sins and have been removed from the congregation what other major adjustments have we recently seen in our preaching work the emphasis now is on studing bible studies and making disciples not on distributing literature to that end the focus is on studying meaningful conversations not just on using memorized presentations were you surprised by these adjustments perhaps so but as we look back we see how one adjustment in understanding gradually helped us with the next adjustment isn't it true that gradually jehovah has prepared us and when we look back on it we see how logical this training has been to refine our understanding but events in the world likewise have changed it's true sometimes in the world you have sudden changes for example the pandemic but often times change in the world is gradual isn't it true with regard to the view of morality homosexuality abortion even what's acceptable and not acceptable with regard to conduct all of that has happened gradually in the world and it's not until you look back and see how different the world is today with regard to those matters that we see that there have been a lot of changes but this can be dangerous because as things gradually change we may get used to gradual change and forget that there are some sudden changes about to occur uh let's take our bibles please and if you turn with me to the book of luke chap 21 now this is an example of sudden change in luke chap 21 uh notice there in verse 34 the words of our lord jesus are recorded and he said in verse 34 but pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with oving and heavy drinking and anxieties of life and suddenly suddenly that they be instantly instantly upon you it's interesting to note that jesus had already said that this day he was referring to would occur at a time that we don't think is likely so what lesson do we learn from what jesus said it's a warning isn't it that we can't just sit back and think well things are gradually going to develop we know which way it's going and maybe it's not going to happen yet you know got a little bit more wiggle room there with regard to the schedule but you see that's dangerous thinking now what we're going to do is consider two examples of areas where perhaps we could be a little guilty with regard to that for example our view as with regard to the number of anointed ones remaining on the earth now for many years what did we think we thought well that number would go down and down and down and down now i don't know about you but me i you when that report came out just how many how many partakers and and what were we thinking we probably you maybe we didn't say it but we were thinking you know the number will go down down down down and there'll be just a couple of old guys in a wheelchair who will get their reward well i'm exaggerating but that was sort of the feeling wasn't it but now what have we seen in recent years those numbers have gone up and up and not only that younger brothers have been appointed on the governing body now i know what you're all thinking two new ones how old are they we know you're not googling now but you will be but you see we need to be careful about what we're thinking with regard to the number of anointed ones left on earth you see 19 years ago i was appointed on the governing body even i thought i was too young now they tell me i'm not so young anymore but do we see the point what does the bible actually tell us with regard to this well it doesn't say the number would just dwindle down to just having a few uh older ones left no the great crowd of other sheep will be judged on the basis of how they deal with

Vanderhoven7

Sigh...Armageddon was in 70 A.D.