Belated welcome to the Forum Fallen-Winter!! I'm glad you found our diverse group for information and support.
Vanderhoven7
JoinedPosts by Vanderhoven7
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31
Loss of a Jehovah’s Witness who I considered a friend
by Fallen_Winter ini have known a jehovah’s witness for approximately 15 years and i have considered her a friend although i know that jehovah’s witnesses cannot have friends who are not jehovah’s witnesses.
approximately two years ago, i was going through a very difficult time and i asked my friend if we could have bible study.
she said yes and we have been studying the bible since.
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8
Was Hell Consistently Taught from Genesis to Revelation?
by Sea Breeze insome sources cite that the word or concept of hell appears 167 times in the old and new testament.
jesus spoke about hell more than anyone else.
how can such consistent warnings by many different writers over 1600 years all be parables?
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Vanderhoven7
WHAT ARE SOME OF THE FACTS THAT BECOME APPARENT ABOUT SHEOL?
Sheol is located downward in the dust of the earth. (Job 17:13-16)
Both the good and the bad go to Sheol.
Jacob and his sons go to Sheol. (Gen.42:38)
David planned to rest in Sheol. (Ps.16:9-10)
David desired his enemies also go down to Sheol, not in peace, but in blood. (I Kings 2:6,9)
By going to Sheol, Job misses God's wrath.
Job actually asks to be hidden in Sheol to escape God's anger. (Job 14:13)
The terms death, the grave, and destruction are so closely bound
as to be often interchangeable in the text (Pr.15:11, 24; 27:20).
Not too much goes on in Sheol.
There is no wisdom or knowledge there and no activity or work for those who go down to silence. (Eccl.9:10 Ps.6:5 Ps. 31:17)
No person praises God from Sheol (Ps.6:5; 88:10-12)
Figurative language is often associated with Sheol.
Beds are made In Sheol. Maggots are spread beneath the dead and worms cover them like a blanket. (Is.14:11)
Sheol is even personified. It is pictured as snatching sinners and robbing people of their remaining years. (Job 24:19);
Sheol has an appetite. It opens its mouth without limit.
It is never satisfied. (Pr.27:20) Sheol is naked before God. (Job.26:6)
Not only is Sheol personified, but it is also presented in satire, while incorporating some of the mythological views of Babylon and Egypt, to ridicule special visitors. Sheol, for example, is said to stir up dead kings, and have them rise from their thrones and welcome Israel's enemies. (Is.14:9,11,15; Ez.32: 21,24,27) These same leaders are also personified for dramatic purposes and pictured as carrying on a conversation in Sheol while still engaged in their lifetime pursuits, i.e., ruling.
MOST IMPORTANT: God will redeem souls from Sheol's power. (Ps.49:15)
Sheol will not have the last word. Sheol is going to be plagued and death is going to be destroyed! (Hos.13:14 KJV) Sheol is not eternal therefore, but temporary. God is with the righteous in Sheol and His promise is not to abandon them there forever. (Ps.16:10; 139:8)
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Was Hell Consistently Taught from Genesis to Revelation?
by Sea Breeze insome sources cite that the word or concept of hell appears 167 times in the old and new testament.
jesus spoke about hell more than anyone else.
how can such consistent warnings by many different writers over 1600 years all be parables?
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Vanderhoven7
There is one word in the Old Testament (OT) that is translated as hell. That word is the Hebrew word "Sheol". Sheol appears 65 times in the OT.
In the King James Version (KJV), Sheol is translated 31 times as hell; 31 times as grave and 3 times as pit.
In the New International Version (NIV) Sheol was translated 57 times as grave; 7 times as death and once as depths.
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Watchtower Humanitarian Aid
by Vanderhoven7 inwitnesses do not give to charities.
mm writes:.
"they are specifically told to only donate to the watchtower organization to let the organization handle disaster relief.
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Vanderhoven7
Witnesses do not give to charities. MM writes:
"They are specifically told to ONLY donate to the watchtower organization to let the organization handle disaster relief. The only money that goes toward disaster relief is to repair buildings owned by the watchtower corporation. But they get it returned with extra when the insurance pays out because they used volunteer labor and some donated supplies. The same goes for jehovah witness homes. Note how they brag about the money they use for such things, then compare that amount to a comparably sized charity, Wycliffe Bible Translators, and also to a very small charity, Food Bank of Central and Eastern North Carolina. The difference should make jehovah witnesses feel ashamed, but jehovah witnesses are actually proud of it, sad to say.
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Who will Survive Armageddon?
by Vanderhoven7 inbreaking news....there is hope for good hearted non-jws!!!.
according to sergio:.
are jehovah's witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?.
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Vanderhoven7
The GB has no shame for saying things like:
“That now-operating kingdom in heaven will, within the twentieth century, cleanse the entire earth of wickedness. … Revelation 16:16 calls it the "war of the great day of God the Almighty," Armageddon. This war will come in the twentieth century. It will come right on schedule, as have the wars, food shortages, earthquakes and other events foretold. This generation will see its fulfillment." Awake! 1961 Feb 22 pp.5-8
"Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah 1971 p.216
And Witnesses still think God is backing them. That's what you get for trusting the false promises of men.
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NEW LEAKED ANNUAL MEETING VIDEO :KENNETH COOK :THE DISFELLOSHIPPING IS NOT GOING AWAY ANYTIME SOON
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/6ga9v7ffrwk?si=0lor5qquapmq8ck4.
what you are about to watch is another leaked instalment from the recent annual meeting delivered by kenneth cook with the theme "help to tear down and build up" and highlights tge new take o disfellowshipping that will from now concentrate on major wrongdoing whereas minor wrongdoing will be dealt with kind and love.so the watchtower's at it again, rewriting the narrative like an old tv show that conveniently forgets a character's past.
for decades, the organization has been the ultimate gatekeeper, quick to kick out members for even minor missteps—let's not forget how jehovah's witnesses have had to grovel and practically beg to be reinstated.
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Vanderhoven7
I have not seen anything in WT literature that changes the following quotations.
Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19
"Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah's universal organization." Watchtower 2006 May 15 p.22 "Are You Prepared for Survival?"
"Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it." Watchtower 1983 Feb 15 p.12
"... to leave Jehovah's organization ... we would lose not only the privilege of doing God's will but also the hope of life in God's new world." Watchtower 2016 Jun study ed p.26
"But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy." Watchtower 1993 Sep 15 p.22
"They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah's organization is essential to their salvation." Kingdom Ministry 1990 Nov p.1
"At this stage of the affairs of man, it is absolutely impossible for anyone, professed Christian or otherwise, to stand independently of the one organisation that is bearing witness worldwide to Jehovah, his goodness and supremacy in accord with the 145th Psalm and, in fact, in accord with all the Scriptures." Yearbook 1982 p.259
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NEW LEAKED ANNUAL MEETING VIDEO :KENNETH COOK :THE DISFELLOSHIPPING IS NOT GOING AWAY ANYTIME SOON
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/6ga9v7ffrwk?si=0lor5qquapmq8ck4.
what you are about to watch is another leaked instalment from the recent annual meeting delivered by kenneth cook with the theme "help to tear down and build up" and highlights tge new take o disfellowshipping that will from now concentrate on major wrongdoing whereas minor wrongdoing will be dealt with kind and love.so the watchtower's at it again, rewriting the narrative like an old tv show that conveniently forgets a character's past.
for decades, the organization has been the ultimate gatekeeper, quick to kick out members for even minor missteps—let's not forget how jehovah's witnesses have had to grovel and practically beg to be reinstated.
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Vanderhoven7
If a Witness says, God will destroy all non-JWs alive at Armageddon or before, then as it stands, 8 billion will be destroyed during the GT and Armageddon… which is not good for PR and certainly not sustainable from scripture.
On the other hand, if they say some who name the name of Christ from other churches can survive Armageddon, then faith or trust in the Govering Body is and never was a criteria for salvation or survival. Can't say that either.
Saying I don't know if repentance is possible after the Tribulation starts changes nothing about the outcome for non-JWs.
JWs need to stop humming and hawing, deferring to the website, pretending and speaking out of both sides of their mouths and start boldly proclaiming their beliefs that even they feel uncomfortable holding and explaining.
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Why I dislike eschatology
by Riley inhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ouye3e0fypc&t=183s&pp=yguzd2h5igkgzglzbglrzsblc2noyxrvbg9neq%3d%3d.
please take the time to watch.
i am not good with words but i have heard someone so eloquently explain how i feel about something.
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Vanderhoven7
@ Riley
Excellent video! Clear and edifying.
Have you seen any of Steve Gregg's videos. He has an excellent video on the four views on Revelation.
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NEW LEAKED ANNUAL MEETING VIDEO :KENNETH COOK :THE DISFELLOSHIPPING IS NOT GOING AWAY ANYTIME SOON
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/6ga9v7ffrwk?si=0lor5qquapmq8ck4.
what you are about to watch is another leaked instalment from the recent annual meeting delivered by kenneth cook with the theme "help to tear down and build up" and highlights tge new take o disfellowshipping that will from now concentrate on major wrongdoing whereas minor wrongdoing will be dealt with kind and love.so the watchtower's at it again, rewriting the narrative like an old tv show that conveniently forgets a character's past.
for decades, the organization has been the ultimate gatekeeper, quick to kick out members for even minor missteps—let's not forget how jehovah's witnesses have had to grovel and practically beg to be reinstated.
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Vanderhoven7
Yes, but the question i asked myself is.... why did they change their position on this issue?
My take is that it represents an attempt at damage control since they have repeatedly written that God will automatically and eternally destroy billions during the Tribulation or at Armageddon, simply because they are not Jehovah's Witnesses. And yet, if they died before the Great Tribulation starts these non-Witnesses automatically get a resurrection into a safe new system.
And now Witnesses can say, maybe billions won't die; we don't know... after all Jesus is the judge, He judges the heart, not us...so we can't say exactly who will survive....there are plenty who have not heard our message yet.blah, blah, blah. You just are not up to date on our current understanding etc.
Then you have to corner them by saying....so one does not have to associate with an organization with headquarters in New York to survive the GT and Armageddon - that's wonderful! I agree fully... Then they accuse you of twisting their words. Then you are free tell them they can't have it both ways.
By the way, I believe Armageddon happened in 70 AD.
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NEW LEAKED ANNUAL MEETING VIDEO :KENNETH COOK :THE DISFELLOSHIPPING IS NOT GOING AWAY ANYTIME SOON
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/6ga9v7ffrwk?si=0lor5qquapmq8ck4.
what you are about to watch is another leaked instalment from the recent annual meeting delivered by kenneth cook with the theme "help to tear down and build up" and highlights tge new take o disfellowshipping that will from now concentrate on major wrongdoing whereas minor wrongdoing will be dealt with kind and love.so the watchtower's at it again, rewriting the narrative like an old tv show that conveniently forgets a character's past.
for decades, the organization has been the ultimate gatekeeper, quick to kick out members for even minor missteps—let's not forget how jehovah's witnesses have had to grovel and practically beg to be reinstated.
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Vanderhoven7
There is a reason that the GB is now admitting ignorance regarding the ability of sinners to repent after the GT starts. They lose nothing but gain the appearance of bring humble and hopeful.
But the outcome is still the same. The fact that they admit they don't know means zip when it comes to relieving the fear of it being too late to repent. Still better repent and come back to the organization now in case.