Vanderhoven7

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Posts by Vanderhoven7

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  33

  Governing Body Memes

  by jw07 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  are there any sites with collections of governing body memes?

  i see memes as a very effective way of getting the truth about the truth across without lengthy debate.

  an effective meme is point and shoot since comedy holds the attention, jolts logic, is memorable, and is more likely to be viral.. something like this: http://t.qkme.me/3674l2.jpg.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Anthony Morris III raising his hand at a recent Watchtower Study.

  
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  80

  Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

  by liam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

  what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

  now the wt is saying that's not enough.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Actually Duran, I don't have to explain anything about Revelation or Thessalonians. My claim is that the GT of Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 is fait accompli to which Luke 21:20,24 attests. Now if you can disprove this claim, or support a different future interpretation, I am all ears.
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  80

  Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

  by liam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

  what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

  now the wt is saying that's not enough.

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  Vanderhoven7

  @Duran,

  Before I answer your questions, can you explain when and how the following will transpire?

  "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. ....They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations (Luke 21:20, 24 ESV)
• 
  80

  Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

  by liam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

  what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

  now the wt is saying that's not enough.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Yes, exactly.

  Times of the Gentiles:

  "And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh . . . and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." (Luke 21:20, 24)

  The times of the Gentiles referred to the treading down, or desolation, of first century Jerusalem, which Jesus called "the days of vengeance". In other words, it was God's mission for the Gentiles to bring judgment upon Jerusalem. This is consistent with past judgments upon Israel, when God brought Gentiles armies into their land to desolate it.

  The whole controversy centers on the duration of the treading down of Jerusalem. The Greek for "trodden" is pat-eh'-o (#3961 in Strong's Concordance), and it means "to trample down underfoot". The parallel to Lk.21:24 is seen in Revelation 11:2, which says:

  "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot (pateho) forty and two months."

  The times of the Gentiles, or treading down of Jerusalem, entailed no more than a forty two month period of time, the exact duration of the Jewish-Roman War. This is in perfect harmony with Daniel 12:7, where the defining characteristic of "the time of the end" is said to be "the scattering of the power of the holy people", which we are told would be accomplished during "a time, times, and a half", or forty two months.
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  80

  Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

  by liam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

  what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

  now the wt is saying that's not enough.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Vanderhoven7

  Well, it looks like I gave some wrong impressions due to incorrect wording. Let me straighten that out.

  What I intended was...

  Jews who survived Jerusalem's destruction in 70 AD were enslaved by the Romans and dispersed among the nations. Jews today (no doubt including some of their descendants) are still found in many nations.

  The enslavement and dispersion of Jews among the nations in 70 AD was the fulfillment of Jesus prophecy found in Luke 21:20-24 which reads.

  "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." (Luke 21:20-22, 24 ESV)

  This prophecy was fulfilled and is not slated to happen again.

  Conclusion: The Great Tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 is prophecy fulfilled, i.e., over and done with.
• 
  80

  Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

  by liam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

  what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

  now the wt is saying that's not enough.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Vanderhoven7

  @ Duran

  What/when is the so-called 'parousia'?

  Only God knows that. Our job is to be ready for the second coming of the Son.

  Who are enslaved currently among the nations that can't return back to Israel now if they wanted to?

  Who said anything about what Jew are experiencing today? I said the surviving Jews, when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, were dispersed as slaves among the nations. Jews are all over the world today and only granted a country in 1948 which has nothing to do with Matthew 24 or Luke 21:21-22. A similar enslavement and disbursement among the nations is not scheduled to happen again after the parousia.

  Has Joel ever been fulfilled? Joel 2:17;3:1,2

  Yes. In the events leading to and including those occurring in 70 AD. Acts 2:16-21
• 
  80

  Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

  by liam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

  what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

  now the wt is saying that's not enough.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Vidqun

  The context of the GT leads to the destruction of the temple and the subsequent dispersal of the survivors.

  "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." (Luke 21:20-22, 24 ESV)

  This is exactly what happened to the survivors of the great tribulation. They were to be enslaved and dispersed among the nations where they have been for the last 1900+ years. This is not scheduled to happen again at or after the parousia.
• 
  80

  Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

  by liam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

  what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

  now the wt is saying that's not enough.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Vanderhoven7

  @Vidqun

  Context is everything

  Matthew24:21. FOR THEN SHALL BE GREAT TRIBULATION, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD TO THIS TIME, NO, NOR EVER SHALL BE.

  The word tribulation means calamity or suffering. Lu.21:24 specifies the nature of this suffering. Josephus uses almost the very words of the Saviour.

  "All the calamities says he, which
  had befallen any nation from the beginning of the world, were but small in comparison to those suffered by the Jews. (Jewish Wars, b.i. preface, p.4)

  The carnage of the siege, which lasted five months, was horrible beyond belief. Thousands died of starvation. When the Romans finally broke into the city, the sight of so many corpses shocked even hardened soldiers. The slaughter of the city’s citizens was so terrible that fires were extinguished by the profusion of blood" (Josephus, Wars 6.8.5).

  Josephus records that 1,100,000 Jews were killed in Jerusalem, and that some 97,000 others were taken as slaves into captivity. It has been estimated that some 1,337,490 Jews in Jerusalem (and in the regions adjacent to Judaea) died — by famine, by the sword, by burning, and by crucifixion (Wars 6.9.3-4).

  Some scholars believe that even these figures are too conservative. In fact, Josephus himself expressed the view that the suffering of this holocaust exceeded anything known to man previously (Wars, Preface, 4; 9.4).

  This was the worst catastrophe Jerusalem and the Jewish faith would ever experience. To this day, they are without the law, priesthood, temple, sacrifice and their Messiah.
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  19

  On the anniversary of Anthony Morris' Resignation

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  strange that after 2 years we still don't know the facts about anthony's resignation.

  grant davus writes:.

  the announcement.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Strange that after 2 years we still don't know the facts about Anthony's resignation.

  Grant Davus writes:

  • The Announcement

  A great deal can be read into the way in which it was announced.

  “Brother Anthony Morris III is no longer serving as a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.”

  How about “It is with great regret that we have to announce that due to failing health . . . etc.”?

  The lack of context and a consoling message places this announcement in the same league as

  “Joe Bloggs in no longer a member of Jehovah’s Witnesses.”

  
  

  • Past Behaviour

  There have been many past rumours about his drinking which, though unconfirmed, do match the Bottlegate affair when Tony Morris was recorded buying half a dozen bottle of McAllans scotch at $80 a bottle on a Sunday morning and the slurred delivery of many of his talks and broadcasts. Here the empirical evidence tends to back rumour.

  
  

  • Protocol

  Notable is the fact that Governing Body members cease their position when they die. Even when they become less active and retire, they are still classed as one of the Governing Body; we can assume he didn’t retire.

  Unless Tony Morris himself breaks ranks or someone with a genuine inside track provides more detail, Watchtower, as a highly secretive organisation, will certainly not provide any further information.

  On balance, particularly the curt delivery of the message, it’s more reasonable to assume Tony Morris didn’t jump; he was pushed.

  Thank you

  https://www.quora.com/profile/Rick-Vann-5/https-www-quora-com-profile-Norea-Pleroma-Sage-p-212059240?ch=8&oid=212097827&share=ff73386e&srid=f7CQl&target_type=post
• 
  80

  Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

  by liam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

  what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

  now the wt is saying that's not enough.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  Absolutely clear that the GB does not know how to interpret scripture. The GT of Matthew 24 occurred and terminated in the first century with the destruction of Jerusalem. The GT was a non-repeatable local event affecting "this people" inhabiting Judea and Jerusalem.

  To make it a dual prophecy, is to make Jesus speaking simultaneously, literally to His generation of believers and figuratively to ours. And we are left trying to figure out what praying our flight will not be in winter or on a Sabbath means. And what Jerusalem and Judea means and what the mountains mean and what not going home to pick up your jacket when roofing means...etc.

  That there is not a Bible Scholar among them is obvious.