Posts by Vanderhoven7

20

Do you think the Door to Door KNOCKING - field service will EVER resume AGAIN?

by pistolpete in

if i was a jw, and covid put and end to the door to door work for two years, and kingdom halls closed, it would get me to re-visit and think about the stupidity of the overlapping generation, and how they extended the deadline for armageddon to 2072.

(1992 franz death +80 more years).

if i was 20 years of age, plus another 80 = 100 years of age for the system to end.

Vanderhoven7

Not until herd immunity is officially declared...which is probably never.

15

I showed on of my JW (True Believers) that Kingdom Halls will be opening soon. He had a fit!

by pistolpete in

so i showed one of my older uncles the link on jw.org.. https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/global/the-governing-body-announces-that-some-in-person-meetings-will-resume-in-select-areas/.

keep in mind that this is one of the relatives that is a true believer and used every excuse you can think of for the cancellation of all kingdom hall meetings.

and he also used every scriptural argument you can make up to justify the end of the door to door ministry.

Vanderhoven7

Just picked this up:

They have started making noises about opening up again but on the proviso that they have been vaccinated. There 4 pages of this: this is page one.

20

Do Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the Bible properly?

by Vanderhoven7 in

do jehovah's witnesses interpret the bible properly?.

jehovah's witnesses see the bible as an organizational book which only the faithful and discreet slave (currently 8 men headquartered in warwick new york) can interpret properly.

the faithful slave was first appointed in brooklyn in 1919 and given the exclusive right and ability to understand and teach the bible properly.

Vanderhoven7

SUGGESTED INTERPRETATION DIALOGUE

How confident are you that Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the Bible properly?

Are Jehovah's Witnesses able to recognize interpretive abuse?

How do Jehovah's Witnesses interpret Matthew 13:44?

Again the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hidden in a field;

the which when a man has found, he hideth, and for joy thereof

goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. Mt.13:44

Note: This verse is somewhat outside the box for JWs. Listen to the explanation they give and follow up by providing the totally fabricated example provided here.

- Imagine you are approached one day by two young elders who see this passage as support for the Mormon religion. They explain that Joseph Smith discovered a treasure in gold plates while walking in a field in Up State NY in the year 1827. He immediately buried/hid these plates, but later (1260 days) after fully dedicating himself to God's kingdom, he returned to unearth them. They add that these plates were then translated into what we know today as The Book of Mormon. Then you are asked to compare Mt. 13:44 with Eze. 37:16 regarding the stick/book of Joseph.

a. Can you identify any problems with the interpretive methodology employed in this interpretation? [??]

b. As a Witness, how would you set them straight on this passage? [??]

Note: Since every doctrine which is unique/ original to Jehovah’s Witnesses is a product of similar if not identical interpretive abuse Witnesses will not willingly attempt to answer question a. So you may have to explain it to them by saying that the elders are in fact guilty of interpretive abuse, not only for ignoring context and arbitrarily linking unrelated passages, but also for tampering with (impregnating) the text by superimposing their own church history, names, dates and places onto the Bible. (eisegesis vs exegesis).

20

Do Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the Bible properly?

by Vanderhoven7 in

do jehovah's witnesses interpret the bible properly?.

jehovah's witnesses see the bible as an organizational book which only the faithful and discreet slave (currently 8 men headquartered in warwick new york) can interpret properly.

the faithful slave was first appointed in brooklyn in 1919 and given the exclusive right and ability to understand and teach the bible properly.

Vanderhoven7

Anyone can add their church history onto scripture and claim that it is Bible-based. However it us not biblical; it is speculation based and therefore unworthy of consideration.

16

New Media Center

by asp59 in

ii wonder if you are a jw how new media center goes along with this text.. 1 corinthians 3:6-9new international version.

6 i planted the seed,(a) apollos watered it, but god has been making it grow.

paulus planted.

Vanderhoven7

Oops...sorry asp for starting another thread on the same topic when I should have just added to yours.

20

Do Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the Bible properly?

by Vanderhoven7 in

do jehovah's witnesses interpret the bible properly?.

jehovah's witnesses see the bible as an organizational book which only the faithful and discreet slave (currently 8 men headquartered in warwick new york) can interpret properly.

the faithful slave was first appointed in brooklyn in 1919 and given the exclusive right and ability to understand and teach the bible properly.

Vanderhoven7

Right on Jeff. But here is the real truth.

Jesus appointed our 12 church leaders to be his Faithful Slave in 1933 in Montreal Quebec Canada. This is fully Bible-based whereas New York is not Bible based. That was the same year Jesus returned invisibly and started ruling which the second world war, affirms. Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 BCE + 2520 years = 1933. It’s all in the Bible and if you don’t believe in our leadership you will die at Armageddon. Plain and simple.

And no; we have not made any false prophecies or handed out millions in child sex abuse cases. And we never banned blood fractions or alternate service or vaccinations or organ transplants. We are the only true channel. Come to our victorious organization for salvation before it’s too late..

19

Why build a new movie studio when we are in the last part of the last part of the last day?

by Vanderhoven7 in

giles gray writes: .

if the end is so near as the jehovah’s witnesses leadership claims (somehow they must have special insight), why are they building a movie studio that will be finished in 2026?.

it’s not the first time something of this nature has happened in the society’s history.

Vanderhoven7

Giles Gray writes:

If the end is so near as the Jehovah’s Witnesses leadership claims (somehow they must have special insight), why are they building a movie studio that will be finished in 2026?

It’s not the first time something of this nature has happened in the Society’s history. In the late 20th century the Watchtower was proclaiming emphatically that the end was imminent, even commending the members for selling “their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service” whilst at the same time the Watchtower were expanding their printing facilities.

The excuse given was that even after Armageddon, the printing facilities would be needed in order to educate those who are resurrected during the 1,000 years reign of Christ.

I suspect that deep down, the leadership of the Jehovah’s Witnesses doesn’t actually believe that the end is near, and additionally many rank and file Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe that it is near either.

The lack of confidence they hold in their prophetic speculations and eschatology is clearly visible. They have back-pedalled from previously proclaiming with certainty and complete self-assurance that the Kingdom would be here by the end of the last century, to the cautious and cagey manner in which they put forward their prophetic predictions today.

For example, the pre-1995 ‘Generation’ teaching was promoted with full conviction, and was even part of the study aid that Jehovah’s Witnesses used to teach new students and interested people. In those days it was considered a sure sign that the end was near. It was stated with no hint of doubt that the Generation of 1914 “WILL BY NO MEANS pass away” before the end came.

Contrast the confidence of those days to the lack of conviction JWs have in the latest ‘overlapping Generation’ doctrine. I don’t know one Jehovah’s Witness who actually fully believes the current understanding with the same level of conviction that the pre 1995 teaching was believed by members. Apologists now hedge their bets by describing the prophesy as a ‘speculation’. They then attempt to excuse themselves from fully endorsing the overlapping teaching by stating that they don’t claim to be inspired prophets.

The difference in the level of confidence in their convictions from the late 20th century to now is a result of the fact that they have finally been brought to account for all their hubristic prophetic claims of the past. Since the advent of the internet, Jehovah’s Witnesses are no longer in the position of being able to sweep their failed prophesies under the proverbial carpet unnoticed and unaccounted for.

Critics of the religion, who have observed the failure of the Watchtower’s past false predictions, are alert to recognise current falsifiable prophesies that fail, and they now have a platform on which to speak out and expose the falsehoods.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are no longer able to make end time predictions that have a finite timeline, so they are obliged to fall back into the ease of prophetic speculations which cannot be proved untrue, such as the open ended assertion that ‘the end is near’. This assertion can never be disproved and it can be used and abused to keep the faithful followers motivated. The nebulous, non specific nature of the speculation is used as a tool to create fear in anyone who has left the Organisation, manipulating their emotions to coerce them back ‘before it’s too late’.

However, even this open ended unfalsifiable prophetic assertion can be challenged. If we take Jehovah’s Witnesses at their word, i.e. that they are not prophets and have no direct communication with God, it follows that they have no basis on which to make the claim that the ‘end is near’. Even if they point to the bible verses to back up their assertion, they have proved time and again that they cannot justify any claim to have an understanding of bible prophesy.

Every speculation they have made has proved false, including the all-important ‘Gentile Times’ prophesy. As they are not prophets, Jehovah’s Witnesses have no way of knowing whether the Gentile Times prophesy currently believed is correct, especially in view of the fact that it was concocted over a decade after the previous failure. That allowed plenty of time during which a post hoc reinterpretation of the 1914 failure could be fabricated. But it’s important to note that the ‘Gentile Times’ prophesy at the heart of the Watchtower’s theology is pure speculation, even by their own admission. Their entire theological structure is founded on the Governing Body’s best guess as to what the bible says. They have no good evidence whatsoever.

This means that they are not an any position to make prophetic predictions at all. And yet the Governing Body regularly speaks out in their videos and publications with full authority about prophetic passages in the bible. They claim that ‘we are so close to the time of end’ as if they have esoteric knowledge, while at the same time covering their backs and giving themselves a get-out clause by claiming not to be inspired prophets. Such double talk.

‘What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence’. The Governing Body and their followers will no doubt continue with their prophetic scaremongering for as long as they need to, in order to keep their religion alive, because their beliefs alleviate the fear of their own mortality. This is what their religion boils down to... they so desperately need to maintain their addiction to the hope of everlasting life.

Undertaking the long term project of building these studios while simultaneously asserting the ‘end is near’ is the means by which they keep their false hopes and empty promises alive.

20

Do Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the Bible properly?

by Vanderhoven7 in

do jehovah's witnesses interpret the bible properly?.

jehovah's witnesses see the bible as an organizational book which only the faithful and discreet slave (currently 8 men headquartered in warwick new york) can interpret properly.

the faithful slave was first appointed in brooklyn in 1919 and given the exclusive right and ability to understand and teach the bible properly.

Vanderhoven7

@Beth Sarim

Winston is great.

Yes, the 2 Class system is unsupported in scripture. I ask Witnesses to show me where the New Testament talks about Christians who are not indwelt by the Spirit, not sons of God, not in the New Covenant, and do not have a heavemly hope. Revelation 7 does not support the 2 class system invented by the Watchtower Society.

20

Do Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the Bible properly?

by Vanderhoven7 in

do jehovah's witnesses interpret the bible properly?.

jehovah's witnesses see the bible as an organizational book which only the faithful and discreet slave (currently 8 men headquartered in warwick new york) can interpret properly.

the faithful slave was first appointed in brooklyn in 1919 and given the exclusive right and ability to understand and teach the bible properly.

Vanderhoven7

Ok... what I am getting at is methodology. Can Jehovah's Witnesses recognize interpretive abuse? For example, can they distinguish between exegesis and eisegesis?

Here is a question to ask any JW.

What's wrong with the following interpretation of the parable of the treasure in the field.?

Again the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hidden in a field; the which when a man has found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. Mt.13:44

Joseph Smith discovered a treasure in gold plates while walking in a field in Up State NY in the year 1823. He immediately buried/hid these plates, but three and a half years (1260 days) later, after fully dedicating himself to God's kingdom, he returned to unearth them. These plates were then translated into what we know today as The Book of Mormon. Compare Mt. 13:44 with Eze. 37:16 regarding the stick/book of Joseph.

What do you think is wrong with the methodology used to derive this interpretation?

How would you have responded when you were pimi JW?

20

Do Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the Bible properly?

by Vanderhoven7 in

do jehovah's witnesses interpret the bible properly?.

jehovah's witnesses see the bible as an organizational book which only the faithful and discreet slave (currently 8 men headquartered in warwick new york) can interpret properly.

the faithful slave was first appointed in brooklyn in 1919 and given the exclusive right and ability to understand and teach the bible properly.

Vanderhoven7

Do Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the Bible properly?

No.

Jehovah's Witnesses see the Bible as an organizational book which only the Faithful and Discreet Slave (currently 8 men headquartered in Warwick New York) can interpret properly.

The Faithful Slave was first appointed in Brooklyn in 1919 and given the exclusive right and ability to understand and teach the Bible properly. This mandate and ability was passed on to all subsequent Watchtower Society leaders

Now they have made interpretive errors in the past because they are imperfect men, but the light gets brighter and brighter for them. And so at this time only Jehovah's Witnesses can say they alone have the truth that leads to eternal life.

So the question is: Does the Faithful Slave interpret the Bible properly? And the answer to that question is:

No.