Posts by Vanderhoven7

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

Thank you for the encouragement Thomas!

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

@Godbeliver

Don't hesitate to fill in the details.

According to your current understanding:

Who was the Faithful Slave?

When did Jesus advent occur and when did His enthronement take place?

Can people be saved and sanctified and approved by God if they believe Christ's Second coming is still future?

Can people be saved and sanctified and approved by God if they have had no contact with the Watchtower Society or it's literature and only have the Bible to go on?

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Godbeliever

Thanks for sharing your beliefs.

So, according to your understanding,

1. Did Jesus Christ's presence begin in 1914?

2. When did he give the devil the boot?

3. What year was he enthroned?

4. Did Jesus choose a Faithful Slave?

5. Who is the Faithful Slave today?

6. Can people be saved and sanctified and approved by God if they believe Christ's Second coming is still future?

In other words, they simply have repented and accepted Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord but reject the idea that the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses actually represents God's kingdom? In fact some may have only read the Bible and never heard of the Watchtower Society or read any of it's publications.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Godbeliver,

Correct me I'm wrong, but I take it that you believe that the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses represents the kingdom although the GB thereof is the evil slave.

On what basis have you concluded that they are the evil slave? I know Furuli has also concluded this. Do you believe the evil slave running the organization is preaching a false gospel or the true gospel? How can Christ be running the organization if it is in the hands of the evil slave?

Do you believe all Christians are justified or must the other sheep work for their salvation during the 1000 year reign?

Do you believe like almost all Jehovah's Witnesses that only those faithful serving the organization will survive Armageddon and that individuals belonging to churches will be destroyed eternally unless they repent and come to the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses for salvation?

Thanks for sharing.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

The problem with being one of the Watchtower "other sheep" is that there is no assurance of salvation. Why Not? Because their salvation is dependent on their performance including their loyalty to the Governing Body of a printing company. Forget the fact that salvation is redefined as surviving Armageddon so they can work for 1000 years for the Watchtower Kingdom, pass a final test and acquire the reward of salvation.

No assurance based on the work of Christ to forgive sin; no their death pays for their sins anyway. Does Christ pay for their sins or does their death pay for their sins?

Comparing James with Paul on justification

James writes: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? James 2:21

Paul writes: What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2. For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Rom. 4:1-3

How can we harmonize James and Paul on the subject of justification?

It is critical to note that Abraham was justified by faith before God not only prior to the giving of the law but also prior to offering Isaac on the alter, and actually even before Isaac was conceived. Genesis. 14:6

The solution then is that Paul was talking about justification before God, while James was talking about justification before men. “Show me thy faith by thy works,” says James, “let thy faith be justified in the eyes of those that behold thee by thy works;” but Paul speaks of justification in the sight of God, who justifies those that believe in Jesus, purely on account of the redemption that is in him.” Thus we see that persons are justified before God by faith, but faith is justified before men by works.

CONCLUSION: Genuine faith is invisible to all but God. Visible works alone can demonstrate to others that a person is truly justified. Works alone can attest to whether faith is genuine i.e., saving or justifying faith. However works are not the basis of salvation but rather the product of salvation.

AND by the way preaching a false gospel is not a good work and earns nobody salvation or a reward.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

Yes, justified by grace through faith in Christ's redeeming blood as a free gift of God...but rewarded for works.

All Believers in Christ are now Justified

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Acts 2: 38-39 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Acts 13:38-39 38 Therefore let it be known to you, men and brothers, that through this one forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39. And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Romans 3:21-26 21 But now God has shown us His righteousness; the law and the prophets tell us about it...God's righteousness comes to all who believe, just by their believing in Jesus Christ. There is no distinction. All have sinned and are without God's glory. They become righteous by a gift of His love, by the ransom Christ Jesus paid to free them. God set Him up publicly to pour out His blood before God to take away sin through faith, to show His righteousness...Now He wanted to show His righteousness, to be righteous Himself and make righteous anyone who believes in Jesus. (Beck)

Roman's 5:18 Therefore by the offense of one judgment cam upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (All Justified will be glorified)

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Godbeliver,

Jesus knew what the rich young ruler's problem was. He was a Jew under the law, but he was not keeping the law. Jesus could have said to him follow all of the 613 laws that apply to you and you will have eternal life.. He could have said as Paul said, if you are under the law and break one command you are guilty of all.

No one ever obeyed every single one of God’s laws...except Jesus. The Rich young ruler's main problem was idolatry, he had a god before God. Even full obedience to the law could only take one so far. Sins were covered over but not removed until the perfect sacrifice was made at Calvary.

Obey the commands perfectly and you will live. Jesus was telling him to do the impossible and he would live. The law was designed to bring us to our knees in hopelessness. That's exactly where I was at 17.

Good works demonstrate that our faith is genuine, but they do not save us or contribute to our salvation. God does not want Christians to be wondering if their works are ample enough to secure His approval and salvation. There is no joy in that. Let me ask you Godbeliever, do you know you are justified before God right now? If so, based on what?

https://youtu.be/Ymkl0t0FOcw

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

@Godbeliever

I'm into salvation by faith alone. If it is true faith it will produce good works. Works do not produce faith. Faith produces works.

Yes, if your faith does not produce good works it is dead and it is false faith and not saving faith.

God knows your heart. You don't have to prove anything to Him.

When God called me at 17, I was trying hard to stop doing things I knew were against His will. I could stop having premarital sex, I could stop getting drunk...but I could not stop wanting these things. Realizing I could not change my hearts desires I called out to God.

God spoke to me right then and there and said clearly to my spirit,

"Rick, it's not what you can do that will make you right with me, it's what my son did at Calvary for you. You can't make what he did more beautiful."

I immediately responded, "God is that it? You mean I don't have to do anything?"

Right then the darkness was lifted from me...and He gave me a heart that desires to serve Him.

Faith works by love. True faith is Christ in you, living His grace in you, transforming the desires of your heart and motivating you to bear fruit of the Spirit.

So as I see it, we are saved by faith alone, faith in Christ alone, by his grace alone, in His blood alone. And true faith works righteousness because true faith is the work of the Holy Spirit in you.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

@ Sea Breeze

Right on. A bit of a gospel summary here

If Jehovah's Witnesses are actually preaching the same gospel as the Apostles preached, then there should be no discrepancy in gospel:

- content

- nature of salvation

- standing that salvation secures

- benefits afforded by salvation

- criteria for salvation

- the hope or destiny of the saved

.

The content of the genuine gospel is Jesus Christ and his work for our salvation in his death and resurrection.
The nature of salvation that Jesus provides is justification.
The standing that salvation secures relates to having received son-ship by the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit.
The benefits of salvation/justification include the imputation of Christ’s righteousness, the forgiveness of sin and the assurance of eternal life.
the criteria and means of salvation/justification is faith.
We are saved:

a. in Jesus alone

b. by grace alone

c. through faith alone

d. in His blood alone

6. there is but one hope of the Christian calling and that is reserved in heaven for every believer.

@ Nicolaou

Thank you for your offer to have a respectful discussion with me. But to be honest, I have no interest in discussing issues of faith with those who distain faith.

@ jcoa

Glad you like it. Please feel free to add to the list.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

We brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion. I think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible. Please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:

WRONG RELIGION

You know you are in the wrong religion:

1. when the all important question is not: "Do you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ?"....but...."Do you believe in the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" appointed in Brooklyn in 1919?"

2. when you will be refused baptism if:

a. you don't believe Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BC (whereas all non-JW scholars, all encyclopedias and all history books say this event took place in 587 BC.)

b. you, like Cornelius, are a member of the military.

c. you, like Daniel, Joseph and the Ethiopian eunuch hold political office.

d. you don't believe the apostles went door-to-door and that Christians are required to do the same.

e. you believe that the majority of Christians running around today are not part of the New Covenant, do not have a heavenly hope, and are not Spirit-begotten or born again.

f. you don't believe that finding and serving in the right organization (the one with headquarters formerly in Brooklyn, now in Columbia Heights ) is necessary to escape eternal destruction at Armageddon.

3. when window-washing, JC Penny suit-wearing elders insist that THEY carry out and handle cases of child abuse and NOT the trained authorities.

4. when your organization holds NGO status in the Wild Beast of Revelation for close to 10 years running.

5. when your leaders have a 100% failure rate interpreting biblical prophecy...except of course when it comes to invisible stuff.

6. when you must surrender your conscience to men.

7. when independent thinking is labeled as sin.

8. when you are to encourage everyone else to question their religion, but are forbidden to question your own.

9. when you are told not to look into the past history, or failed predictions because that would not be " encouraging ".

10. when your religion enforces medical quackery such as forbidding vaccinations or organ transplants.

11. when you are forbidden to celebrate birthdays because thousands of years ago, someone died at a birthday party.

12. when you are constantly told to wait on Jehovah for answers to your scriptural questions and doubts.

13. when child victims have to jump through hoops to expose a pedophile

14. when you have shunned your own children for the last 25+ years.

15. when you just had to suppress the thought that you might be in the wrong religion.

16. when the youngest of the final generation are over 107 years old.

17. when you are denied life saving medical treatments.

18. when you are taught to distrust your own thoughts.

19. when you were told you didn't need college because you would not have time for a career in this system and now you a card carrying member of AARP.

20. when you can't figure out the current teachings on which 'fractions of fractions of fractions of blood' are acceptable to Jehovah.

21. when you find out that you and your wife made love in the wrong way.

22. when all your friends stop speaking to you because you visit web sites critical of the Watchtower

23. when you will be disfellowshipped (spiritually executed) if

a. you don't agree that rejecting the authority men in Warwick is worthy of excommunication and shunning ex-JW family members.

b. you disagree with any doctrinal position or change handed down from the current governing body in New York.

c. you engage in any behavior that could be labeled as "brazen", and you refuse to "repent" when called before a kangaroo court.

d. you allow your child to have a blood transfusion to save his or her life.

24. when you casually say "i don't think the governing body is the true channel" the room gets quiet they all look at you pointing and screaming your cover is blown the alien controlled humans are chasing you the last remaining human who still has a human brain.

25. when you see the words "Jehovah" and "Witness" juxtaposed.