Posts by Vanderhoven7

17

How To Talk About Interpretation With Jehovah's Witnesses.

by Vanderhoven7 in

this from my book: good news for jehovah's witnesses.

before we discuss any doctrinal issues, i would like to distinguish between what i believe is proper versus improper interpretive practice.... so you know what i can accept as biblical and what i can't accept.. basic guidelines for validating doctrinal claims`).

i. there must be at least one scriptural reference that can be cited for support of any doctrinal claim or position.. ii.

Vanderhoven7

@Godbeliever,

"Nobody can see Jesus again if they do not accept his newly established kingdom in heaven."

Nobody can see or enter Christ's Kingdom unless they are born again.

3¶Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God....6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

So are you born again? If you do not have Christ's indwelling Holy Spirit you do not belong to Him. Romans 8:9

17

How To Talk About Interpretation With Jehovah's Witnesses.

by Vanderhoven7 in

this from my book: good news for jehovah's witnesses.

before we discuss any doctrinal issues, i would like to distinguish between what i believe is proper versus improper interpretive practice.... so you know what i can accept as biblical and what i can't accept.. basic guidelines for validating doctrinal claims`).

i. there must be at least one scriptural reference that can be cited for support of any doctrinal claim or position.. ii.

Vanderhoven7

@ Scholar

"Eisegesis is not common and usually not favoured by scholars but is practised to a great extent in WT publications and I have no issue with this fact...."

I'm sure you don’t. Witnesses can't have an issue because their religion depends entirely on adding to the word of God. The LDS elders in the OP didn't object to interpretive abuse either. After all their leader was given the divine mandate and ability to add to the word of God.

The fact is that your religion is not biblical. By that I mean that every doctrine which is unique to Jehovah's Witnesses is not in the Bible. You can justify that fact to yourself, but not to those who believe the Bible can not legitimately be made to say whatever a person or group wants it to say.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

Good one LITF.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Godbeliever,

Why is getting a straight answer from you like pulling teeth? I could understand if you were a Jehovah’s Witness because they do not want to admit or even receive anything critical of the Watchtower Society.

I will ask the question one more time.

Do you think that it is possible that some who don't believe that Jesus presence (parousia) has occurred yet could be among those who survive Armageddon?

Let me provide two possible answers you might consider...

Yes I believe it is possible.

No I believe it impossible.

18

Are JWs preaching Paul's Gospel or something beyond Paul's Gospel?

by Vanderhoven7 in

paul's gospel: .

now, brothers and sisters, i want to remind you of the gospel i preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.

2 by this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word i preached to you.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Jammer

Do you believe that the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses is the one true religion and all the other forms claiming to be Christian are part of Satan's organization?

18

Are JWs preaching Paul's Gospel or something beyond Paul's Gospel?

by Vanderhoven7 in

paul's gospel: .

now, brothers and sisters, i want to remind you of the gospel i preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.

2 by this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word i preached to you.

Vanderhoven7

If Jehovah's Witnesses are actually preaching the same gospel as the Apostles preached, then there should be no discrepancy in gospel:

- content

- nature of salvation

- standing that salvation secures

- criteria for salvation

- benefits afforded by salvation

- the hope or destiny of the saved

The content of the genuine gospel is Jesus Christ and his work for our salvation in his death and resurrection.
The nature of salvation that Jesus provides is justification ... not surviving Armageddon.
The standing that salvation secures relates to having received son-ship by the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit.
The benefits of salvation/justification include the imputation of Christ’s righteousness, the forgiveness of sin and the assurance of eternal life.
the criteria for and means of salvation/justification is found -

a. in Jesus alone

b. by grace alone

c. through faith alone

d. in His blood alone

6. there is but one hope of the Christian calling and that is reserved in heaven for every believer.

Is this what Jehovah’s Witnesses are preaching?

18

Are JWs preaching Paul's Gospel or something beyond Paul's Gospel?

by Vanderhoven7 in

paul's gospel: .

now, brothers and sisters, i want to remind you of the gospel i preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.

2 by this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word i preached to you.

Vanderhoven7

How about the truth about the Watchtower forum?

18

Are JWs preaching Paul's Gospel or something beyond Paul's Gospel?

by Vanderhoven7 in

paul's gospel: .

now, brothers and sisters, i want to remind you of the gospel i preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.

2 by this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word i preached to you.

Vanderhoven7

It seems clear that the WTS goes far beyond the gospel Paul preached, not only in terms of content, but also requirements or criteria for salvation....the necessity of putting trust in men in New York for example.

And then of course there is the condition or requirement to associate with and be loyal to an organization with headquarters in New York.

"Come to Jehovah's organization for salvation." WT 11-15-81 p.213

"To receive everlasting life in the earthly paradise, we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it." WT 2-15-83 p.12

"Bible students...must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah's organization is essential to their salvation." Our Kingdom Ministry, Nov, 1990

Those who do good things for Jesus' "brothers" because these anointed ones are his followers have the hope of surviving "the day of Jehovah."
(Watchtower, September 15, 1997 p. 17)

"Yes! genuine Christians are now being gathered into a united brotherhood earth wide. Who are they? They are the Christian congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses..." (Watchtower, July 1, 1994 p. 7)

"The Scriptures strongly support the conclusion that at Armageddon Jehovah will destroy the peoples of the earth, saving only those who obey his commandments to stand by his organization." (Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, 1993, p. 170)

"We will be impelled to serve Jehovah loyally with his organization if we remember that there is nowhere else to go for life eternal."
(Watchtower, November 15, 1992 p. 21 - "Serve Jehovah Loyally"

"Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the "one flock" Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah's organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established." (Our Kingdom Ministry, November 1990 p. 1)

"You must be part of Jehovah's organization, doing God's will, in order to receive his blessing of eternal life." (You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth p.255)

"Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." (Watchtower, September 1, 1989 p. 19)

"In this way only lovers of God and of his family, his organization, will survive and enter into the cleansed earth that is to be transformed into a glorious Paradise." (Watchtower, December 15, 1982 p. 27 - Clothing Ourselves With Love and Wearing It)

"Know that all living at Armageddon will be baptized, either with fire for destruction with the wicked or with salvation for life with the theocratic organization." (Watchtower, June 1, 1952 p. 350)

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Godbeliever,

I'm sure you try your best to serve Jehovah. Too bad the Watchtower Society doesn't see you in the same light. They would probably tag you as Apostate and you know what happens to them at or even before Armageddon.

But we are not talking about your good works and others insufficient works. We are talking only about necessary beliefs for salvation.

If someone is really has a lot of good works and believes and preaches Paul's gospel but they don't believe that Jesus' second presence has occurred yet or that God has appointed the Faithful Slave yet, is it possible that they could survive Armageddon anyway?

Is that a yes or a no according to your understanding?

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Godbeliever

Correct and necessary to believe to survive Armageddon?