Posts by Vanderhoven7

16

CSA Victom Speaks Out

by LostintheFog1999 in

i happened to come across this video at the beginning of the week.

you feel so sorry for this poor woman who experienced csa and then the hardheartedness of the elders (what's new there) when she needed genuine love and help.. https://fb.watch/j1qacgxphi/.

Vanderhoven7

J.V. shared

JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES

WA State House committee held a hearing on WA SB 5280 re: Clergy mandated reporting.

3 EX JW Heroes shared testimony about the jehovah’s witnesses cult’s horrendous child sexual abuse.

I couldn’t be more happy.

https://youtu.be/mKBmGYfFfDY

16

COVID 19 - DISSOCIATION LETTER

by gavindlt in

dear friends,.

i think you all know me as a person who has always strived, despite my imperfections to only ever wanting to be and remain in the “truth”.

it is in fact what i so desperately want for my son ashton and my baby girl honey bee, to be lovers of truth and grow up to be a loyal servants of jehovah god and his son, jesus christ.

Vanderhoven7

Excellent OP! A real keeper. Hope many will be swayed to examine their faith in men.

22

UNDERSTANDING WHY THE ORGANIZATION is a false idol and a BLASPHEMY

by Terry in

do we understand these three words: worship, idolatry, and blasphemy?.

most christians have a vague notion of worship, idolatry, and blasphemy already, but.

a clear definition is necessary.. we must take care to differentiate, however.. how the words appear in original language and how they are defined today might be at odds.. ____________________.

Shunning and persecution

by Vanderhoven7 in

jws see shunning as a loving provision.

but if a mennonite gal is shunned by her parents and friends for converting to jwism, would this be seen as a loving provision or as evidence of persecution?

how about parents beating a daughter who converted to jehovah's witnesses?.

Vanderhoven7

Thanks for sharing your situation Stan. Can't wait for Watchtower religion to implode and families restored.

Greg Tuckett writes about some issues with fading.

"I must say this seems to depend on your congregation or area you live in. I was a publisher and never got baptized, but a few friends of mine who also drifted away were pretty much left alone to do so. I did have a few elders pester me into coming back when I would bump into them, but I chose not to explain my reasons why because I knew it would most likely put my family who was still part of the congregation in a difficult position, most likely being viewed as bad associations by association if you know what I mean.

But saying that, I have known others who belonged to different congregations who have been pestered by the elders until they have given the reasons why they have left, and this always leads to them being disfellowshipped. Unfortunately, this seems to be the case more often than not and was the very reason I started questioning the beliefs in the first place.

16

Shunning and persecution

by Vanderhoven7 in

jws see shunning as a loving provision.

but if a mennonite gal is shunned by her parents and friends for converting to jwism, would this be seen as a loving provision or as evidence of persecution?

how about parents beating a daughter who converted to jehovah's witnesses?.

Vanderhoven7

Graeme Hammond writes

In his 2002 book that examined the behaviour and practices of Jehovah’s Witnesses, English sociologist Andrew Holden devoted an entire chapter to the trauma and friction experienced by those who choose to leave the Jehovah’s Witness religion. “Those who do eventually break free,” he concluded, “are seldom allowed a dignified exit.”

He noted: “As far as the Governing Body is concerned, there is no difference between those who leave the Watch Tower community voluntarily and those who are disfellowshipped.”

Though the Watch Tower Society denies it, those who who choose to depart are shunned by family and friends. This, as Holden says, can create enormous problems given that JWs are urged to limit their contact with the outside world for fear of “spiritual contamination”.

There are three exit doors for Jehovah’s Witnesses:

Disfellowshipping, as a result of a judicial committee, a shocking kangaroo court process that results in organised shunning, with even verbal greetings prohibited;
Disassociation, a voluntary but formal cutting of ties with the congregation and religion, which attracts the same response from the congregation; and
“Fading”, in which JWs gradually reduce their contact with the congregation before ceasing attendance entirely, hoping their absence won’t be missed.

Those who do “fade” however, not only often find that they are shunned by former friends anyway, but that their new life of independence — which may include celebrating Christmas, attending a different church, engaging in premarital sex or criticising their former religion — can result in being summoned to a judicial committee with the likely result of being disfellowshipped. Jehovah’s Witnesses regard baptism as a lifelong commitment to the church, and therefore lifelong subjection to the authority of elders.

Non-believers (those who have never joined the Jehovah’s Witnesses) are not formally shunned; they are simply avoided as “bad association”.

16

Shunning and persecution

by Vanderhoven7 in

jws see shunning as a loving provision.

but if a mennonite gal is shunned by her parents and friends for converting to jwism, would this be seen as a loving provision or as evidence of persecution?

how about parents beating a daughter who converted to jehovah's witnesses?.

Vanderhoven7

Grant Davies adds

A person who leaves the congregation has their departure announced in exactly the same way as a disfellowshipped person:

“[Name of person] is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” (Shepherd the flock of God, 2020 pp149)

No distinction is made to the congregation as to whether the person has left or been disfellowshipped and so shunning is employed.

This rather says it all:

The Watchtower September 15, 1981 p. 23
“Persons who make themselves “not of our sort” by deliberately rejecting the faith and beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses should appropriately be viewed and treated as are those who have been disfellowshipped for wrongdoing.”

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

Vanderhoven7

Perhaps the oldest mother will be around when the Armageddon starts and so make true the Awake declaration that God promised to bring about a secure new system before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away. Evidently just about anything is possible when generations overlap.

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

Vanderhoven7

Look at this amazing generation overlap. The oldest one probably saw the events of 1914 from her crib.

https://youtube.com/shorts/oA2Fd4m38xs?feature=share

16

Shunning and persecution

by Vanderhoven7 in

jws see shunning as a loving provision.

but if a mennonite gal is shunned by her parents and friends for converting to jwism, would this be seen as a loving provision or as evidence of persecution?

how about parents beating a daughter who converted to jehovah's witnesses?.

Vanderhoven7

Shunning a loving provision or persecution?

Apparently it depends on who is doing the shunning.

Jackson found the article I was looking for.

Excerpt from the WatchTower 2005 Sept 1 Article “Mennonites Search for Bible Truth”

A few days later, the church elders came to the home of Johann’s family with an ultimatum for the interested ones: “We heard that Jehovah’s Witnesses visited you. You must forbid them to return, and unless you hand over their literature to be burned, you face expulsion.” They had had just one Bible study with the Witnesses, so this presented a formidable test.
“We cannot do as you ask,” replied one of the family heads. “Those people came to teach us the Bible.” How did the elders react? They expelled them for studying the Bible! This was a cruel blow indeed. The cart belonging to the colony cheese factory passed by the home of one family without collecting their milk, denying them their only source of income. One family head was dismissed from his job. Another was turned away from buying supplies at the colony store, and his ten-year-old daughter was expelled from school. Neighbors surrounded one home to take away the wife of one of the young men, asserting that she could not live with her expelled husband. Despite all of this, the families who studied the Bible did not give up their search for the truth.

Notice that the expulsion is labeled as “cruel”. When a JW is disfellowshipped, what happens between him and his JW clients if he is a businessman?

I know a woman who was a professional massage therapist. Before she was even read off from the platform, the elders from her “not judicial” committee called her JW clients and informed them that they should no longer go to her. It was an incredible drop in income.

Anyone who is DF'd, forcibly DA'd or who disassociate for conscientious reasons loses their whole social network overnight. Some lose their jobs as a result. Some are kicked our of their homes.

Why can WatchTower call the expulsion of Mennonites cruel while calling expulsion of JWs a loving provision?

Why is it cruel when Mennonites break ties with a member who changes religion, but it's perfectly fine for JWs to shun another JW who changes religion, or, God forbid, simply disagrees with the Governing Body on a doctrinal matter?

18

Answering JW Conversation Stoppers

by Vanderhoven7 in

jws often try to justify their religion as being the only true religion.

questions like.

which other organization is doing this or that?

Vanderhoven7

All is good Beth.