Any religion which ostracizes former members through mandated shunning is a cult. Jehovah's Witnesses needlessly break up families and call their evil shunning practices “Jehovah's loving provision”. Stay far away from this brand of counterfeit Christianity.
Vanderhoven7
JoinedPosts by Vanderhoven7
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53
What makes a cult (in the pejorative sense)?
by Vanderhoven7 inmichael moore writes:.
a cult is an organization that enslaves minds and destroys families using cult mind control.
cult mind control involves orchestrated deception, social pressure, psychological abuse, and repetitive indoctrination (brainwashing) centering around an unchallengeable ideology enforced in a totalitarian way in a closed socially-separatist community setting.
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53
What makes a cult (in the pejorative sense)?
by Vanderhoven7 inmichael moore writes:.
a cult is an organization that enslaves minds and destroys families using cult mind control.
cult mind control involves orchestrated deception, social pressure, psychological abuse, and repetitive indoctrination (brainwashing) centering around an unchallengeable ideology enforced in a totalitarian way in a closed socially-separatist community setting.
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Vanderhoven7
My take on religious cults is:
If you cannot leave a religion with your reputation and your family intact, you are in a cult.
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What are some of the JW Teachings That you do not Agree With
by Vanderhoven7 incasey sabella writes.
many of their teachings have no biblical basis whatsoever.
they claim those leaders are in fact the faithful and discreet slave jesus spoke about in matthew 24. further, they alone were selected by jesus himself in 1919 to identify as this slave and that all other churches are false.. only 144,000 can partake of communion and go to heaven.
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Vanderhoven7
UNIQUE BELIEFS OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
WHICH I DON'T BELIEVE.:
a. the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses is the one true religion
b. all other religions are part of Satan's organization, Babylon the Great, defined by the Watchtower Society as “the world empire of false religion”.
c. God is soon going to destroy the Whore of Revelation 18 at Armageddon, which includes all churches of Christendom, Catholic and Protestant, as well as all their followers and supporters.
d. with rare exceptions, only faithful Jehovah's Witnesses will survive Armageddon. The billions who perish at Armageddon will be forever destroyed without any hope of a resurrection.
e. True Christians are to accept every official teaching that comes down from Watchtower headquarters and if they, as adults, vocalize any disagreement and persist in it, will be disfellowshipped and shunned by friends and family. Unity at all costs
f. proper disfellowshipping offenses include ongoing unrepentant celebration of birthdays including Christ's birthday, unrepentant acceptance of blood transfusions, refusal to quit smoking and willing ongoing association with a known disfellowshipped or disassociated person or persons.
g. the 11 member Governing Body serving at Warwick New York headquarters represent the channel of truth for mankind. Together they are the Faithful and Wise Servant spoken of in Matthew 24:45-47.
h. that in October 1914 Jesus second coming occurred invisibly; he then became king and from 1914 on has been ruling in the heavens giving his attention to the earth which initially involved the examination of the churches of Christendom. The last generation that Jesus said surely would not pass away...began in 1914. (note: the youngest of the 1914 generation i.e.,babies born in 1914, are 107 years old today)
i. in the spring of 1918 the apostle Peter and all anointed ones who died (less than 145,000) were raised to heavenly life. The rest of mankind who are not part of the 144,000, good and bad, remain in the grave until the second resurrection which will take place soon.
j. in the fall of 1918, Jesus finished examining the churches and rejected all of them.
k. early in 1919, Jesus found a group of faithful Bible Student leaders serving at Brooklyn New York and appointed them to exclusively channel his truth to the nations via the publishing company they were using (Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania). This group of men was the original Faithful Slave of Matthew 24, whose office, mandate and ability to interpret the scriptures accurately was passed down to all subsequent Watchtower leaders. These leaders are not perfect and they can err in doctrine or organizational instruction, but they must be believed and obeyed nonetheless.
l. that prior to the 20th century (from AD 33 to 1900) there were less than 145,000 faithful Christians that ever existed. (Note: this means that the millions who perished as martyrs before the twentieth century were not real Christians in the Watchtower Society's eyes).
m. a new group of non-anointed Christians began being called early in the 20th century; today there are 8.5 million of these Christians in the world. These are not born-again; they do not have a heavenly hope; they are not in the New Covenant and therefore are not entitled to partake of the bread and the wine symbolizing Jesus' death; they do not have eternal life, the indwelling Holy Spirit or the imputation of Christ's righteousness. They will only have a chance to earn eternal life if they survive Armageddon and serve God during the 1000 year millennium and prove themselves faithful to the end.
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Distinction between Bible-based and biblical.
It is clear that the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses is Bible-based.
But it is also equally clear that all evangelical churches rightly claim that their brand of Christianity is Bible-based.
Today there are Bible Students who still believe the Faithful Slave was Charles Russell. They base this on Matthew 24:45–47. So it is Bible-based to say Charlie Russell is the Slave.
Now what can we conclude from this. …. Only that Bible-based does not necessarily mean biblical….and in many cases, Bible-based is an excuse to add ideas to biblical passages.
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What are some of the JW Teachings That you do not Agree With
by Vanderhoven7 incasey sabella writes.
many of their teachings have no biblical basis whatsoever.
they claim those leaders are in fact the faithful and discreet slave jesus spoke about in matthew 24. further, they alone were selected by jesus himself in 1919 to identify as this slave and that all other churches are false.. only 144,000 can partake of communion and go to heaven.
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Vanderhoven7
@Phizzy
Exactly
Bible-based yes, biblical no.
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The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.
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Vanderhoven7
Hi Kale,
Contacting angels for fellowshipping is spiritism. JWs can't even talk to Jesus. It's prayer to them. They can't address him and/or come to him with their burdens as he invited us to do.
I had a young lady from work (Joan) call me for help a while back. There was an angel in her room that was asking to be her guide. I asked her to describe him for me. She said he was dressed in white and had golden hair. She also told me that she couldn't see his face, that she could see through him, The Holy Sprit warned me that she was dealing with a control demon and that the reason he hid his face from her was so she would not see the hatred he had for her in his eyes. I told her to send him packing in the name of Jesus which she did.
She called me that same afternoon and asked me to come to her home and pray for her. I did and I never saw someone ask Jesus to be their saviour so quickly.
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85
The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.
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Vanderhoven7
Our fellowship is with the Father and The Son. I Jn.1:3
Eternal life is knowing both Father and Son, not knowing about them. Jn.17:3
Can would-be Christians know or fellowship with Michael the Archangel?
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What are some of the JW Teachings That you do not Agree With
by Vanderhoven7 incasey sabella writes.
many of their teachings have no biblical basis whatsoever.
they claim those leaders are in fact the faithful and discreet slave jesus spoke about in matthew 24. further, they alone were selected by jesus himself in 1919 to identify as this slave and that all other churches are false.. only 144,000 can partake of communion and go to heaven.
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Vanderhoven7
Casey Sabella writes
There are quite a few. Many of their teachings have no biblical basis whatsoever. For example:
- They claim those leaders are in fact the faithful and discreet slave Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24. Further, they alone were selected by Jesus himself in 1919 to identify as this slave and that all other churches are false.
- Only 144,000 can partake of communion and go to heaven. Other JWs cannot do either.
- Jesus bans all voting or saluting the flag.
- Jesus has banned all birthday celebrations.
- Jesus forbids the celebration of all holidays.
- Getting a blood transfusion forfeits any hope of eternity.
- All who leave the group are rejected by God as apostates.
- Jesus is “a” god, the reincarnation of Michael the archangel.
- Jesus did not rise from the dead bodily.
- All true believers only use the name Jehovah, a word ascribed to God in some instances of the Old Testament but never used once in the New.
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What are some of the more exceptional self-authenticating claims made by Jehovah’s Witnesses?
by Vanderhoven7 inlet's start the ball rolling with two connected claims.. the religion of jehovah’s witnesses is the one true religion.
all other religions are satanic, including all the churches of christendom..
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Vanderhoven7
Weasel words.
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What are some of the more exceptional self-authenticating claims made by Jehovah’s Witnesses?
by Vanderhoven7 inlet's start the ball rolling with two connected claims.. the religion of jehovah’s witnesses is the one true religion.
all other religions are satanic, including all the churches of christendom..
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Vanderhoven7
Is the Faithful Slave organization the only channel of salvation?
Mark writes:
That's certainly the claim made by numerous Watchtower articles.
However in 2015, Geoffrey Jackson said under oath, “That, I think, would seem to be quite presumptuous, to say that we are the only spokesperson that God is using.”
But there doesn't appear to be any official clarification who, or what, “other spokespersons” Jehovah might be using.
Judge for yourself if he was telling the truth.
“All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the “greatly diversified wisdom of God” can become known only through Jehovah’s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave,” (Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8).
“They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah's organization is essential to their salvation." Kingdom Ministry 1990 Nov p.1 I
“Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19
"Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah's universal organization." Watchtower 2006 May 15 p.22 "Are You Prepared for Survival?"
"Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it." Watchtower 1983 Feb 15 p.12
"... to leave Jehovah's organization ... we would lose not only the privilege of doing God's will but also the hope of life in God's new world." Watchtower 2016 Jun study ed p.26
"But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy." Watchtower 1993 Sep 15 p.22
"At this stage of the affairs of man, it is absolutely impossible for anyone, professed Christian or otherwise, to stand independently of the one organization that is bearing witness worldwide to Jehovah, his goodness and supremacy in accord with the 145th Psalm and, in fact, in accord with all the Scriptures." Yearbook 1982 p.259
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Examples of Watchtower flawed interpretation of Bible passages?
by Vanderhoven7 inasking jehovah’s witnesses to interpret specific passages is a great way to demonstrate their interpretive abuse.
got any clear examples?.
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Vanderhoven7
Their entire 1914 chronology is established by a series of eisegetical assumptions.
Picked this litany of assumptions up somewhere:
Assumption 1: Nebuchadnezzar’s tree-stump dream in Daniel chapter 4 has a fulfillment beyond his day.
The book of Daniel makes no mention whatsoever of any fulfillment beyond his day. There is no indication that what happened to Nebuchadnezzar is some type of prophetic drama or minor fulfillment to a major future antitype.
Assumption 2: The seven times of the dream are meant to represent 360 day years each.
When this formula applies elsewhere in the Bible, the year-for-a-day ratio is explicitly stated or clearly implied. Here we are assuming that it applies.
Assumption 3: This prophecy applies to the enthronement of Jesus Christ.
The point of this dream and its subsequent fulfillment was to provide an object lesson to the King, and mankind in general, that rulership and the appointment of a ruler is the sole prerogative of Jehovah God. There is nothing to indicate that the enthronement of the Messiah is indicated here. Even if it is, there is nothing to indicate that this is a calculation given to show us when that enthronement takes place.
Assumption 4: This prophecy was given to establish the chronological extent of the appointed times of the nations.
There is only one reference to the appointed times of the nations in the Bible. At Luke 21:24 Jesus made no connection whatsoever between this phrase and anything contained in the book of Daniel.
Assumption 5: The appointed times of the nations began when Jerusalem was destroyed and the Jews were taken into exile in Babylon.
There is nothing in the Bible to indicate when the appointed times of the nations began, so this is pure speculation.
Assumption 6: The 70 years refers to 70 years in which Jerusalem would be destroyed.
Based on the wording of the Bible, the 70 years could refer to years in which the Jews were under the rule of Babylon. This would include the servitude when the nobles, including Daniel himself, were taken to Babylon, but the rest were allowed to stay and pay tribute to the King of Babylon. (Jer. 25:11–12)
Assumption 7: 607 B.C.E. is the year Jerusalem was destroyed and Judah’s king slain and the appointed times of the nations began.
Scholars agree on two years: 587 B.C.E. as the year of Jerusalem’s destruction, and 539 B.C.E. as the year in which Babylon fell. There is no more reason to accept 539 B.C.E. as valid then there is to accept 607 B.C.E. for Jerusalem’s destruction.
Assumption 8: 1914 marks the end of the trampling of Jerusalem and therefore the end of the appointed times of the nations.
There is no evidence that the trampling of Jerusalem by the nations ended in 1914.
Assumption 9: Satan and his demons were cast down in 1914.
Witnesses contend that Satan caused the First World War out of anger for being cast down. However, he was cast down in October of 1914 according to WTS interpretation, and yet the war began in August of that year and preparations for the war had been going on for a considerable time before that, as early as 1911. That would mean he had to get angry before he was cast down and the woe to the earth began before he was cast down.
Assumption 10: The presence of Jesus Christ is invisible and is separate from his coming at Armageddon.
There is strong evidence in the Bible that the presence of Christ and his arrival at Armageddon are one and the same. There is no hard evidence to indicate that Jesus would rule from heaven invisibly for over 100 plus years before manifesting himself visibly prior to the destruction of this old system of things.
Assumption 11: The injunction against Jesus’ followers getting knowledge of his installation as king as stated at Acts 1:6, 7 was lifted for Christians in our day.
This statement of Jesus would mean that the apostles of his day had no right to know when he would be enthroned as king of Israel–spiritual or otherwise. The meaning of Daniel’s prophecy of the 7 times was supposedly hidden from them. Yet, the significance of the 2,520 years was revealed to William Miller, the founder of the Seventh Day Adventists in the early part of the 19th Century? That would mean the injunction was lifted for Christians in our day. Where in the Bible does it indicate that Jehovah has changed on this position and granted us foreknowledge of such times and seasons?
In Summation
To base the interpretation of a prophetic fulfillment on even one assumption opens the door for disappointment. If that one assumption is wrong, then the interpretation must fall by the wayside. Here we have 11 assumptions! What are the odds that all 11 are true?
