Posts by MeanMrMustard

73

Did God know adam and eve would sin?

by gavindlt in

to all those on this forum, i would love to know what your take on this vital question is..

MeanMrMustard

I think its more about the ability to know. Like having the key to someone's hotel room, but choosing not to use it to see whats happening inside the room.

I'm not sure that's a good analogy. Putting aside that God created the hotel, all the rooms, and the content of each room, if He found Himself on the outside of this "room", how does He know its the right room to look into, or even pass by? Who or what is labeling the rooms for God?

Its more or less concluded from Paul's passages in Romans Chapter 5, where he states how sin entered the world through Adam's disobedience and death through it, and how Jesus' act of justification can mean everlasting life for all. This alludes to the point that there was a time when there was no sin, (means perfection - relative, not absolute) and hence no death.

Whatever state that was, why is it "perfect" and not just "very good"?

73

Did God know adam and eve would sin?

by gavindlt in

to all those on this forum, i would love to know what your take on this vital question is..

MeanMrMustard

@Vanderhoven7: Yep. I rekon that's what it says. The idea that Adam and Eve were "perfect" (whatever that means - highly subjective) is a JW doctrine pulled from the ass of the early leaders. And barely anyone questions it.

73

Did God know adam and eve would sin?

by gavindlt in

to all those on this forum, i would love to know what your take on this vital question is..

MeanMrMustard

Where does the Bible say Adam and Eve were created perfect?

73

Did God know adam and eve would sin?

by gavindlt in

to all those on this forum, i would love to know what your take on this vital question is..

MeanMrMustard

God chose not to know.

How can God choose what not to know without first knowing it in order to make the choice?

41

God cannot lie

by psyco in

the bible does not say that god does not want to lie, but that he cannot lie or it is impossible for god to lie.

.

so, if god cannot lie, for what purpose and why did he create creatures (satan, demons, humans) who can lie?.

MeanMrMustard

Assume God can indeed lie. Then the statement that God cannot lie, is, in fact, a lie. In other words, that's exactly what a lying God would say.

36

Why are the 2 newly appointed Governing Body Members from Bethel, when there are anointed ones all over the world? they could have used.

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

library.

books & brochures.

enjoy life forever!—an interactive bible course.

MeanMrMustard

@NorFormer: Or he and his wife were swinging with another couple at Bethel. No way to know.

109

Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

by TheScientist in

this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

MeanMrMustard

"This will not end well for them."

Yeah, and I don't argue any of that. Concerning CSA scandals : victims should pursue just compensation to the fullest extent possible. However, if there are 8.5 to 9 million "core" JWs, these CSA scandals wouldn't be any cause for concern. Sure, there might be some judgements, but it's easy to spin that to the core believers that it was an unjust outcome from a Satanic world, and it could be used to rally more donations.

But the issue is the "core" isn't there, or is rapidly shrinking, or probably both. They can rally around assets for a while, change the way they do business a bit, and go forward without the CSA problem. But the CSA issue is a drop in the bucket to the shrinking core beliver count.

They are losing on the ideological front line. And that's the way it should be. The org shouldn't go out with bang (like with some huge governmental attack - the likes of which would reinvigorate the core belivers). It will shrink with time as more people come to realize it's a cult.

They may shift the shunning doctrine, allow beards. Hell, maybe bring back birthdays and Christmas. But the only way to halt shrinkage is to have a core set of people that actually believe.

109

Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

by TheScientist in

this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

MeanMrMustard

"Current needs" - yes, possibly. But long term depends on the size of the strong, consistent "core" believers - whatever that is. My guess is that it's small, and getting smaller.

That which can't be sustained, won't.

Eventually, the WT will join the ranks of the Bible Students - obscure fringe. And then they will have to deal with the fallout of that. (The org was supposed to be THE org)

109

Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

by TheScientist in

this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

MeanMrMustard

Bottom line: the number of people willing to fund the organization, for the long term, is most likely a small, aging percentage of the declared WT number of JWs. And it's a worldwide figure, with some countries able to produce more funds than others.

So what's that percentage? Very hard to tell. We hold our finger to the wind as exJWs. We see people come and go. know that every single young person, save one, that I grew up with has left. I've seen elders just give up and leave - which was probably a brewing PIMO situation for a while.

So what's that number? If it's 20%, then the organization will collapse to 20% of its size. Doesn't matter what they do with the doctrine.

I have a feeling the actual number of true, long term funders and believers is a lot lower.

This is why they feared the internet so much. Too late. It's going to shrink, far. It's just a matter of time. And as time lurches forward, and this "old system" sticks around longer, the percentage willing to fund the org will decrease. The old guard will die, replaced with ever dissolutioned younger folk itching to get out in the real world.

Time and pressure... time and pressure.

109

Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

by TheScientist in

this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

MeanMrMustard

I still think that the ultimate fate of the WT, whether they lift the shunning doctrine or not, is that the org will shrink to a shadow of what it has been - something small, very small, but still around.