Posts by Alfred

34

Steven Unthank is a true HERO

by Shawn10538 in

jw
friends

i just got done listening to hsi interview on six screens.

if any of you have any doubt about his motives and the greatness of his heroic actions, listen to the entire interview.

it is more than 3 hours long and i believe he addresses many concerns some here have had.

Why is it absolutely necessary for some posters to immediately offer what they believe is a "balanced" point of view on every freakin thread about Steven?... if people want to hail him as a hero or even worship him, let them... that's their perogative.

19

Does anyone have the 2012 Memorial Talk outline?

by Alfred in

just wanted to see if they included 1 cor 11:26... or if they elaborate on that text... thnx.

Alfred

Ynot... Thanks for that 2006 outline... looks like they conveniently left out 1Cor 11:26 from that out line ....

I just wonder if they plan to leave it out the 2012 outline as well...

17

Governing Body two-thirds majority

by wannabefree in

jw
friends

i believe current count is 9 gb, so that makes 6 out of 9 for it to be so?.

how about two-thirds when all 10,800 or so are given a say?.

Alfred

I bet they got this 2/3 mayority vote method from the UN...

Are changes in the U.N. the answer? Consider the one that was made during the Korean War in the early 1950’s. At that time a resolution was passed that made a two-thirds vote in the General Assembly enough to override a veto by one of the members of the influential Security Council. It was believed that this modification in procedure would curtail any attempt by a Security Council member to hinder the peacemaking efforts of the United Nations.

Actually, this change was not drastic enough, as subsequent history has proved. In a crisis it was found that a two-thirds vote usually could not be mustered to overrule a veto. The influence of a larger nation in the Security Council Frederick Franz has a great effect on how members of the General Assembly Governing Body vote.

-Awake! March 8, 1972 page 5

12

When does the Lord "arrive"?

by Alfred in

(credit to therevealer for finding this and posting on another thread).

from watchtower march 15, 2010 page 27 "one flock, one shepherd":.

who should partake?.

Alfred

12

When does the Lord "arrive"?

by Alfred in

(credit to therevealer for finding this and posting on another thread).

from watchtower march 15, 2010 page 27 "one flock, one shepherd":.

who should partake?.

Alfred

Same ole crap... that it most certainly is...

These are one of those bizarre teachings where you can easily get three different responses (to the same question) from three different elders (one of them being, did you look it up in the CD Rom?)

12

When does the Lord "arrive"?

by Alfred in

(credit to therevealer for finding this and posting on another thread).

from watchtower march 15, 2010 page 27 "one flock, one shepherd":.

who should partake?.

Alfred

(credit to therevealer for finding this and posting on another thread)

From Watchtower March 15, 2010 page 27 "One Flock, One Shepherd":

Who Should Partake?

15 Those in the new covenant "have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place." (Read Hebrews 10:15-20.) These are the ones who are "to receive a kingdom that cannot be shaken." (Heb. 12:28) So, then, only those who will be kings and priests in heaven with Jesus Christ should drink from the "cup" that represents the new covenant. These participants in the new covenant are the ones promised in marriage to the Lamb. (2 Cor. 11:2; Rev. 21:2, 9) All others who attend the annual Memorial are respectful observers, who do not partake of the emblems.

16 Paul also helps us to understand that those with an earthly hope do not partake of the Memorial emblems. He said to anointed Christians: "For as often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives." (1 Cor. 11:26) When does the Lord ‘arrive'? When he comes to take the last of his anointed bride class to their heavenly home. (John 14:2, 3) Clearly, the annual observance of the Lord's Evening Meal is not to continue endlessly. "The remaining ones" of the woman's seed yet on earth will continue to partake of this meal until all of them have received their heavenly reward. (Rev. 12:17) If, though, those who will live forever on earth were entitled to partake of the emblems, then this Memorial meal would need to continue forever.

OK... let's back up here for a second... How does this work then (according to the WT)? What on earth does the WT writer mean when he says that Jesus "arrival" will occur "when he comes totakethe last of his annointed"??? Is Jesus coming down in one fell swoop to inflict fatal harm to the few remaining annointed so they can receive their heavenly reward and officially mark Jesus' arrival? The way this is written in paragraph 16, it is implied that this is a one-time event... not something that would happen continuously as more annointed pass away... So what the f**k is the Watchtower trying to say here???

9

Johannes Greber, the New Testament

by Lady Lee in

i was hunting through some papers and found about 1000 photocopies of various things that are wt-related.

thought i would share some of them.

in 1980 the wts sent a thank you letter to the johannes greber memorial foundation.

Alfred

Looks like this esoteric book store still carries Rutherford books...

http://www.booksmart.co.uk/esoteric.htm

19

Does anyone have the 2012 Memorial Talk outline?

by Alfred in

just wanted to see if they included 1 cor 11:26... or if they elaborate on that text... thnx.

Alfred

Evidently, they've employed some "safeguards" to keep this talk outline off the internet... seems to be the most difficult outline to get... anyone familiar with the chain of custody of this particular talk?

6

Militant apostate wants to become the Steven Unthank of America!

by koolaid-man in

former jehovah's witness monique from calfifornia is destined to become the steven unthank of america.. reading about unthank online is what caused her to exit the organization, just two months ago.. monique applauds mr unthanks efforts in charging the the watchtower organization in not complying with police background checks in australia.

the business monique is currently involved in required her in to get a background check.she has approached the state of california and is inquiring why the jehovah's do not have to comply with background checks,as other businesses and organizations do.monique is a militant apostate and she is attempting to organize a movement to get other former witnesses in their state to push for jw background checks.. monique will be our guest sat.

est.

Alfred

People don't get offended by your so-called "shock"... they get offended by your "lies"

19

Does anyone have the 2012 Memorial Talk outline?

by Alfred in

just wanted to see if they included 1 cor 11:26... or if they elaborate on that text... thnx.

Alfred

Memorial Outline used on April 9, 2009…

OBSERVING THE MEMORIAL OF CHRIST'S DEATH

Song No. 87. Opening prayer

BEING HERE IS MOST IMPORTANT THING WE COULD DO THIS EVENING (3 min.)

· We are here to commemorate the death of greatest man who ever lived

· Jesus Christ commanded his followers to do this (Lu 22:19)

· Apostles and early Christians observed Memorial of Jesus' death

· Observance is also known as Lord's Evening Meal (1Co 11:20, 26)

· Pertinent questions arise:

· Why did Jesus command his followers to commemorate his death?

· When should this be done?

· What do the emblems, the bread and wine, represent?

· Who are entitled to partake of the emblems?

WHY WE COMMEMORATE JESUS' DEATH (5 min.)

· To magnify two greatest expressions of love

· God showed love for world of mankind by giving his Son (Joh 3:16)

· This was the greatest expression of love

· It caused Jehovah great pain to see his Son suffer and die

· Jesus' actions were next greatest expression of love (Joh 15:13)

· Left heavenly glory to carry out God's will (Php 2:5-8)

· Kept integrity to God, proving a perfect man could do so

· Gave perfect human life to ransom sinful mankind (Mt 20:28)

WHEN THE MEMORIAL SHOULD BE OBSERVED (3 min.)

· Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide assemble for Memorial on Nisan 14

· Today, after sundown, is Nisan 14, according to Biblical calendar

· On evening of Nisan 14, 1513 B.C.E., Israel held first Passover, so named because firstborn were 'passed over,' or spared (Ex 12:26, 27)

· Next morning, still Nisan 14, Moses led Israel out of Egypt

· Israel was commanded to celebrate this deliverance annually

· Celebration involved roast lamb, bitter herbs, and unleavened bread; wine was later added

· On evening of Nisan 14, 33 C.E., Christ instituted Memorial of his death right after celebrating his last Passover and dismissing Judas Iscariot (Mt 26:17-19; Joh 13:21-30)

· Memorial of Christ's death celebrated annually

· It is thus observed only once a year, as was the Passover

WHAT THE BREAD AND WINE REPRESENT (5 min.)

· Body and blood of Christ represented by the bread and wine

· Apostle Paul recounts meaning of emblems (1Co 11:23-26)

· Unleavened bread is symbol of Jesus' sinless body (1Co 5:7, 8)

· Red wine pictured Christ's blood, which serves two purposes

· Takes away sin (1Pe 1:18, 19)

· Validates new covenant with anointed followers (Heb 9:15-20)

WHO PARTAKE OF THE EMBLEMS? (13 min.)

Only spirit-anointed ones are entitled to partake

Last year _________________ were present for Memorial

Only _________________ partook of the emblems

Why so few are partakers?

· Jesus is Mediator of new covenant foretold at Jeremiah 31:31-34

· Its purpose is to gather spiritual Israel (Ac 15:14; Ga 6:16)

· Spiritual Israel also termed "little flock," to whom God would give the Kingdom government (Lu 12:32)

· All of little flock are in the covenant Jesus made with his apostles for the heavenly Kingdom (Lu 22:28-30)

· They will rule as kings and priests over the earth (Re 5:10)

· Number limited to literally 144,000 (Re 14:1, 3b)

· Majority of these were gathered prior to our time, so that today only a remnant of the 144,000 are on earth (Re 12:17)

· These are the ones who partake of Lord's Evening Meal

· All of them must and do have the assurance that God is dealing with them as spirit- anointed ones (Ro 8:16, 17)

· They must examine their faith and conduct (1Co 11:17-34)

· Need to be genuinely imitating Christ

· Bible tells of one salvation but two destinies (1Jo 2:1, 2)

· Expression "our sins" designates special group of 144,000

· These partake of Memorial emblems, for they are in new covenant

· They will also reign with Christ

· Expression "whole world's" embraces unlimited number of "other sheep," with earthly destiny (Joh 10:16)

· These do not partake because they are not in new covenant, but they benefit from it by keeping God's laws and will enjoy eternal earthly blessings under the heavenly Kingdom

· This calls to mind God's covenant with Abraham (Ge 22:17, 18)

· "Seed" is Christ and anointed followers; have heavenly destiny (Ga 3:16, 29)

· "All nations of the earth" are those with earthly destiny, today represented by "great crowd" (Re 7:9; 21:3, 4)

· Provision for two destinies magnifies God's sovereignty, achieves his will for earth

CELEBRATING THE MEMORIAL OF CHRIST'S DEATH TODAY (12 min.)

Read and comment briefly on Matthew 26:26

Jesus offered prayer and passed bread to 11 apostles

Qualified brother (preferably of anointed) offers prayer, and then the bread is passed

Read and comment briefly on Matthew 26:27, 28

Jesus prayed and then passed the wine to his faithful apostles

Another qualified brother (preferably of anointed) prays, and then the wine is passed

[Optional whether speaker comments during serving of emblems]

BENEFITS FROM BEING PRESENT AT THIS MEMORIAL CELEBRATION (4 min.)

· We have been reminded of Jehovah's greatest expression of love

· Observance has also reminded us of Christ's love for God and for us

· How one can show appreciation for the significance of the Memorial

· Diligently study the Bible and Christian publications

· Regularly attend five weekly meetings (mention times)

· Serve Jehovah faithfully as Christian ministers

· Work toward the goal of baptism, if not yet dedicated to God

· Both anointed and other sheep must meet same Christian standards

· Maintain fine conduct, walking closely in Christ's footsteps

· Show brotherly love to fellow believers (Joh 13:34, 35)

· Tell others about two greatest expressions of love (Mt 5:14-16)

· We invite all qualified to share in field ministry this week

Jesus ended the Memorial celebration with song (Mt 26:30)

Concluding song, No. 105. Final prayer

[Only scriptures in bold type need be read. References: w90 2/15 10-20; it-2 268-71; gt 114, 115]