Posts by elderINewton

14

money

by Defianttruth in

jw
friends

i keep seeing references to the 750 million in sales of the nyc properties and confusion around the apparent cash flow problems of the wtbt society.

here's the reality.

if they went, to a bank and asked for loans for the buildings here's what a bank would say, "absolutely.

FYI - I have yet to personally see a credit downgrade. They are a customer of the company I work for and the D&B indicated "good" credit. Funniest part to me was when they said they are in the "printing & construction" business, religion was not listed.

The likely issue is that you can't get a mortgage on contaminated property. Banks don't lend on buildings with issues like that. It might have caught them off guard so the cash grab could be to maintain a float rather than have a bank provide the service.

They will need a sizeable float to maintain construction of Wakhill.

I have also seen a fair number of special pioneers shipped out for assignment via airplane, so they are not acting like its a money issue with the ministry. Only construction, it further clouds the whole issue.

12

Just 10 more days. How are they going to spin the news on Oct 3 annual meeting?

by John Aquila in

so they asked all the kingdom halls for all the money in their savings account and then make them give a monthly payment for the rest of their life.

the reason for this was because the in-gathering is so great, that they need to build, build, build!.

now the massive building will stop..

elderINewton

Who says they will tell everyone they have stopped building? Either way they might say they are simplifying things at bethel so that more can devote themselves to the ministry. (I fully realize that if you spend more time in the ministry and get more recruits you need more facilities, but that is logical and the message is not).

I really don't think people will bat much of an eye. They sure didn't with the 2014 funding scam.

50

Is the WT SLOW-ly Changing the importance of the Door to Door preaching work to something more profitable?

by John Aquila in

its been a couple of weeks since a new c.o.

was appointed to the circuit and im starting to hear tidbits of his talks..

one brother told me that in one of his talks he asked the question; .

elderINewton

Carts are the key to solving the "generational" issue (aka old people). Carts allow them to just sit and wait, while counting time. The reality is that most large cities have for years had witnesses at various stops for approach work, but this is much easier for a senior to do. Its really just busy work. I've had to pleasure of watching several carts for the past year, and the success is minimal at best. I'd argue the workers are more disheartened as the likelihood of bad apostates talking to them is greater. But the vast majority appear to just enjoy sitting in a chair (or motorized chair). This is really nothing new, its just that they added a cart, and you can just sit on your arse and do nothing.

In the circuit I was with, we got 2 bible study requests since JW.borg has been active, a sizeable circuit at that. Still if you did the math and said 1,000's then its still a very small number considering the publicity.

I watch the analytics on the website and its pretty flat. Really with about 800,000 page views daily and 8,000,000 witnesses its actually pretty bad. I like one site that says the traffic is worth about 1.7 million dollars. http://www.freewebsitereport.org/www.jw.org

The real question I have is if the risk of lawsuits is greater for door to door or from the carts?

91

Anthony Morris III: Jehovah Blesses Obedience

by wifibandit in

http://tv.jw.org/#video/vodprogramsevents/pub-jwbmw_201509_1_video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf9j7qs7bvm.

obey.

elderINewton

freemind - that is good - the are not dogmatic they issue decrees, but enforce them dogmatically. -

I said to my wife a while back they can go either two directions from here - lay the hammer down and enforce or just start to let things slide. At the time I said they would hammer down, and videos like this at least give me some comfort in saying I told you so.

91

Anthony Morris III: Jehovah Blesses Obedience

by wifibandit in

http://tv.jw.org/#video/vodprogramsevents/pub-jwbmw_201509_1_video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf9j7qs7bvm.

obey.

elderINewton

well after watching that twice (15 mins I'll never get back). So they rules are not dogma, which can be questioned?, but decrees that can't be?

Then every decision the GB makes is a decree that is not man made and is governed from heaven. So I guess that means that for the reported 1006 children with abuse claims in Australia, the policy to not protect them was governed by heaven. Interesting, you can't have it both ways.

Still I was hoping for a great rant.

53

Are the J.W's reaching a "Tipping point"?

by karter in

jw
friends

i haven't been to a meeting in 15 years but my mother and sister are hard as j.w's.

the brothers they are appointing elders are at best suspect like one guy from my old hall made elder,big time drug used before becoming a j.w his talks are all over the place and would have struggled to make m,s years ago but with at least 60 to 70 % of young ones leaving the pool to pick from is at best reduced.. 2 other recent elders both young and zero life experience both on benefits one not well at all falls asleep all the time.. the decent,kind elders mostly older and are decent people with alot of life experience are burning out fast as there are so few of them left like 3 per congro of 100 publishers.. then you have the rich elders who wouldn't ever think of inviting some poor older or mis-fit person out to the expensive placers they go to as they couldn't afford to go so they are above the r&f and the r&f get pissed off with them.

then we have the ones who have "put the kingdom 1st" who are now old worn out and barely getting by from welfare cheque to welfare cheque that are saying "the system should have been over many years ago" it's still here and they are struggling everyday.. then there are the pioneers who have a low payed reduced hour job that seem to think anyone who has anything is totally materialistic and looks down on anyone getting a new car buying a house ect.. along with the child abuse issues,the generation change,access to information the the g.b don't want anyone to know ,not to mention the issues around blood.. is there a tipping point coming????

elderINewton

While many are hoping for a tipping point, an event needs to trigger the tip. One can hope that in this information age that someone finally spills the beans on something internal that will shake the organization to the core. Without that event it will just get people coming and going like any cult. People are too unsure and scared to do anything else without an event. To me even with my extended family, those "in" barely know a damn thing. Those that know, know TTATT, and are either waiting it out to escape or not, or just running away.

I think we have more leaking than a tip at this stage, but that is just my perception. To me the irony is that the leaking was made greater by tv.borg with the GB punching holes in the hull of the ship.

110

Just had a former elder friend tell me, “This Overlapping generation is crap.

by John Aquila in

last night i ran into a former elder friend, he is in his late 70s.

he asked how i was doing and i asked how he was doing.

then out of the blue he tells me; .

elderINewton

So many times I'm reminded of that movie Shawshank redemption - when that older fellow, Red, who had only known prison was released he hung himself because he could not function outside of the prison.

It seems that for so many the WT is that same prison, and that waking them would be cruel. I applaud you John for thinking in a like minded loving manner.

Still, it makes me wonder if there is much more discontent, or is it just that others know we don't believe so they can be more vocal. Its probably both.

25

For Those of You Who Still Serve... How Do You Do It?

by Kingdom Evader in

jw
friends

new here... been lurking for some time now.... i still serve... but with each passing day, it gets harder and harder.

i'm slowly... slowly working on my wife (i call her mrs. hardcore) and even my m-i-l (who taught my wife how to be hardcore).

making some amazing progress... they are still hardcore... but unrecognizable from a couple years ago!.

elderINewton

I'll provide what I did:

1) Public Talks - nothing better than this opportunity to preach the real gospel and direct people to the bible and not the WT. Make people really care, and be able to see what a true friend is and not a WT conditional friend. The outlines provide for great flexibility with this.

2) Service - it was tough for me too, but ringing the doorbell and just offering a friendly encouraging scripture is about all I could do, other than the escape to 2-3 hour coffee and breakfast.

3) Meeting parts -

a) Bible Study - this is the toughest (other than if you do the WT on Sunday) - make it a drone contest, see who are the biggest drones. A drone being the people most enthusiastic.

b) Service Meetings - these can be tough, but if you continue to direct people to the bible you have done good. The more people actually read the bible the more likely they are to wake up.

c) TMS - stick to what the bible says, not what a WT says.

4) Shepherding calls - I miss those the most. Screw what the WT says and actually listen and make people happy. You do that your awesome. WT demands, you can show people that God loves them. Never forget that. Its the opposite of what we are told to do in many ways, but even after my 3 month fade I still get calls from people who want to know if I still care for them (which I do). AKA - imitate Jesus.

Never once have I lied about my feelings on the borg, stick to the scriptures and your safe. People really don't know what to make of you when you stick to the bible only, it throws them off and really in turn they like it more than the drivel they typically get.

Good luck and happy hunting.

39

Let’s Speculate!!!

by John Aquila in

you know the organization is slowly going down.

not as fast as we would wish, but nevertheless it is crumbling.

five (5) year old child baptisms, smaller magazines, child sexual abuse exposed, smaller annual growth, no one wants to reach out, young ones leaving.

elderINewton

What will the Watchtower look like in 30 years?

Will there still be a Governing Body?

- Maybe - could go back to a president as well. I could see AMIII take over.

Will they finally drop 1914?

- Yes - only focus on world conditions telling us its bad.

Will the blood doctrine finally be dropped?

- They can't (lawsuit costs would be over the top). Medically this is more likely to become a non issue in the future, it will all be fraction based.

Will disfellowshipping be dropped?

- No - likely will have more vocal dissenters, so they will double down on this in some way.

Will there still be Circuit Overseers, Elders, Pioneers?

- Yes - but less CO's.

Will there still be Judicial Committees?

- probably more offenses for the JC's.

Will they still have conventions 3 times a year?

- No - will move to 1.

How many meetings will they have a week?

- No change.

Will they still go door to door preaching?

- yes.

Will they drop the name; “Watchtower Bible and Tract Society?”

- Yes, but due to lawsuits and bankruptcy, not for rebranding.

How many members will they have worldwide?

- 5-7 million. - With the majority in Mexico.

29

Is It Time to regroup?

by John Aquila in

how much do you want to bet that the organization has already started preparing articles for the watchtower magazines, convention talks, circuit overseers talks and letters to bodies of elders, to refute what is happening in australia?

.

right now the most important thing for the wt to do is protect their image that they are gods visible organization.especially in the u.s. and latin american countries.

elderINewton

Konceptuals Option 1is probably the current MO.

A lot will be riding on what happens with the Bethel heavyweights, and if the US media really pumps it.

I was thinking that maybe they might address it in the August broadcast, but its probably already complete. So maybe something or nothing in September. Just depends on how big the rabbit hole goes.