i am an inactive jw.
i havent been on this forum for a few months and have been lurking in others.
i have met a few people in real life and online, both on this forum and on others.
If one wants to be an activist, one must be willing to show oneself.
If not, then do not join.
What should not be done is to put pressure on anyone to join or declare skeptics of the AAWA project to be JW's in disguise or use similar statements and notions. One does not have to be in AAWA or support it, to not be a JW spy or the like. So calm down.
Just know, that there probably is a price to pay if one chooses freedom.
i am an inactive jw.
i havent been on this forum for a few months and have been lurking in others.
i have met a few people in real life and online, both on this forum and on others.
Well, 8 years ago I tried to fade. Unfortunatly that proved to be impossible:
1) The elders would not let me
2) My family in JW kept trying to get me to the meetings
As I got chills down my spine whenever I visited a meeting or a convention, I finally told them not to invite me anymore. The result was them completely cutting me off for a year. When my sister finally visited me she was shocked that all she knew avoided her as long as she were together with me. She kept implying, that even if I were mobbed, the truth was the truth and I would be back again someday. That impression were reflected in the mails on FB I kept recieving from JW's, where they asked me "how were things going in the truth" and if I would like to visit a meeting together with them. Finally I posted a message on my Facebook wall, that I had no intention at all going back to "the truth", posting 2 Watchtower quotes about shunning minors in family life and limiting freedom of speech, and wrote below, that I could not accept the above why noone should expect me to ever return to the Jehovahs witnesses or visit a kingdom Hall ever again. The result was a drop of 150 "friends" from my friends list on FB and a mass of PM's from shocked witnesses telling me not to try to pull other pure hearted witnesses with me in my fall from grace. My whole JW-family including my little sister and my father deleted me from FB and cut me off. I have only momentarily talked with the old patriarch of my family. Since I cannot get in contact with the rest of my family I guess he keeps deeming me dangerous.
My point with telling this is, that one cannot freely speak ones mind in the open, as long a one insists on being a fader.
As long as you are not willing to break the chains openly, the Watchtower will keep you chained through your family and friends inside JW.
And through your family the Watchtower will keep holding you guilty of not being a part of their society.
I say:
We are NOT ashamed!
We do NOT owe them anything!
They have NO demand on our life!
i was having a discussion with a (currently serving) elder recently when he brought up a straw-man argument that went something like this:.
elder: i've been invited to speak with other christian groups, you know what they do when studying the bible?.
elder: they read a verse or chapter, then go around the room asking how everyone interprets the reading.
Most JW's believe, what they think all JW believe... I believe
so an apostabuddy wanted to stage a silent protest at the assembly hall where she was baptized.
we went today.
the plan was to wear these apostate t-shirts that had stuff printed on them about thinking for yourself, and a bunch of websites.
First time I saw the "security"-elders throw someone of the premises, I was quite shocked. And the most strange: noone seemed to notice, even though it happened right in front of us. (It was during a readup of the declaration, all at the assembly was to shout YES to). Two elders just sat down on each side of the man, grapped him under his arms and lifted him up and ot. I just wonder how often it have happened.
Good going, serenity.
my experience with jw so far taught me, that among them are all kind of personalities, with their particular reason for joining or staying in a religion (cult) like jw.. you find those with mental problems, those born in, who dont know any better, those with serious problems handling life (drug, alcohol, porn addic, who need strict rules to function).. but there are also quit normal people, who manage their life failry good, they often just accept anything of the org on a superficial basis, without giving too much thought, and going more or less through the motions.. then there are those, who really are deep thinkers, often with higher education.
besides their belief they take interest in things like quantum theories, history, even philosophy to a point etc..... however, they do not use their sharpe mind when it comes to examining their own religion.
i can in the meantime even understand this, because mostly they have emotional reasons as well to be a jw, and anything contradicting they put under "cognitive dissonance", and just dont think about it.. however, what puzzles me most, is when some of them, being exposed to apostate ideas, still use all their ability and skills to defend clearly ridiculous positions.. personally i also like to scrutinize things, i tried the same with some doctrine, particularly blood teachings, and could not find a solution, thinking it was my lack of insight.
@ sizemik
It has allways been a kingdom divided against itself, where the WTB$ came out the strongest and crushed all opposition. But people hang on and still more are lured into the trap. I'm afraid we should not get our hopes up high in this regard. People (we) are dum and there will allways be new generations who are ignorant of the past and that can be convinced to remain so. They would litterally be willing to "sell their souls" to be part of something important, get a package of obligated friends and get to "own" their family.
Rolf Furuli is just giving the norweegean congos false hope that may get a lot of youngsters to cling on to the JW. The society will not change fundamentally and they will grow up in a trap. RF might even mean well, but he is still just a man helping the WTB$ to trap people.
NB: Regarding "selling ones soul", it is intereting that thisis actually what "Insight" explains that the witnesses have done. They have "sold their souls" to the organisation! (see "Soul", serving with the whole soul)
my experience with jw so far taught me, that among them are all kind of personalities, with their particular reason for joining or staying in a religion (cult) like jw.. you find those with mental problems, those born in, who dont know any better, those with serious problems handling life (drug, alcohol, porn addic, who need strict rules to function).. but there are also quit normal people, who manage their life failry good, they often just accept anything of the org on a superficial basis, without giving too much thought, and going more or less through the motions.. then there are those, who really are deep thinkers, often with higher education.
besides their belief they take interest in things like quantum theories, history, even philosophy to a point etc..... however, they do not use their sharpe mind when it comes to examining their own religion.
i can in the meantime even understand this, because mostly they have emotional reasons as well to be a jw, and anything contradicting they put under "cognitive dissonance", and just dont think about it.. however, what puzzles me most, is when some of them, being exposed to apostate ideas, still use all their ability and skills to defend clearly ridiculous positions.. personally i also like to scrutinize things, i tried the same with some doctrine, particularly blood teachings, and could not find a solution, thinking it was my lack of insight.
Regarding Rolf Furuli then the word is, that the WTS allready tried to silence him and/or discredit him and/or kick him out. Their problem was, that Rolf Furuli have massive support in the Norweegean congos. It is said that many CBoE's in Norway threathened to disassociate the WTS if they touched Rolf Furuli. So they don't touch him, because he is quite popular amongst the witnesses in Norway.
I would guess he is one of those, that believe he can change things inside the JW community. Ex. he is advocating that young witnesses seek higher education.
If people feel locked in the community they have sweared their life to, they rather want to change the "spirit" of the community than leaving it all behind. It is a social thing then. They are still living on a lie though and lures the young ones into a trap by their activity. JW community remains just that despite it all, a trap.
the wathtower admits that by reading the bible alone without their help, people will believe in the trinity, hellfire, visible return of christ, heavenly hope for all christians etc etc.. here's the quote:.
"from time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of jehovah's people those, who, like the original satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude... they say that it is sufficient to read the bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home.
but, strangely, through such 'bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." (watchtower, aug. 15, 1981, p. 29).. why would people revert back to christendoms doctrines unless the bible actually teaches them!.
We all have a big bunch of "silent knowledge" (prelearned experience) that we draw from, when interpretating the world around us. That is why controlling the language is so important. We also draw on "silent knowledge" when interpretating words and terms.
Ex. changing a known word to avoid activating peoples "silent knowledge":
koiné, "charis" - english, grace - watchtowerish, undeserved kindness
Ex. remoduling "silent knowledge" connected to words:
The Truth - english, factual - biblish, Jesus - watchtowerish, the organisation
This does that watchtower indoctrinated people can use the same fraze's and terms as "outsiders", but mean the (sometimes) totally opposite.
so paragraph 5 of todays watchtower says: people with faith see clearly the difference between the baseless claims of men and the sacred promises of jehovah god.
then i thought of every pre 1995 awake inside cover page in the box where it say why the awake is published; where it says:.
most important, this magazine builds confidence in the creators promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.. .
@tiki
Use Google Chrome as browser
notice how thankful we should be to "the slave"... he said that expression dozens of times in his recent visit, over and over and over ad nauseum.. .
can i barf now?.
The foremans (appointed by the management) speach to the workers of Sewercleaning Inc.
"The Management gave us exactly what we needed. This midweek service meetings were practical & beneficial. The Management also knows it's easy to get tired. Yet, they reminded us how to face challenges to our zealous perseverance by how the Founder was an example for us. How kind it was that they give us these potent reminders & digninfy us by allowing us to examine our work & make the needed adjustments in our approach. Truly, we are living with the special knowledge that the great flush is near. How we are blessed by the Director to know this & appreaciate this. What a privilege it is to be used by the Director to help other to understand and act on this knowledge."
And now you are telling me, that the payday is a figment of imagination?!
true or false.. black or white.. life or death.. .
the above are binary.
this or that.. computing is based on binary choices.
@Terry
:) They lacked the understanding of the importance of the element of surprise. You had time to think. That was their mistake. Plus they even got you suspicious by being eager to make you aware of its whereabout. You would get suspicious as soon as THEY pointed something out. Distrusting and on your guard. Tsk. Me, I would have showed you the movie "Arachnaphobia" first and shared with you stories about black widows found in toolbox's killing the unfortunate man trying to fetch his hammer. Then I would greet you goodnight and let yourself discover a fake spider hidden under your duvet. As you open the door either in terror or with intend to mock me because you had discovered the spider was fake, the REAL spider would be hanging in your face from the doorframe where I had placed after you closed the door. :) Such things should be done with proper care for detail.
I like your story but have to object. You did not change values. You changed perception of reality. It was not real to you. It was a fairytale, like you would percieve a religious myth now. The STORY was of no value to you as you rejected it. The "value" you place(d)? on spiders, that triggers your primal fear had NOT changed. Only the OBJECT had - or rather, your perception of what the object was. And then we are back at the beginning.
If a mother that loves her child AND believes her child would perish if she allowed it to get a bloodtransfusion, she would still love her child while fighting the doctors over the issue. The problem is the SETTING (she percieve), not how she values her child.
NB: I just realized after posting this, that I skipped the part with you being bitten as a 5 year old child. It is of course not something to take advantage from. But alas, when a child one rarely understands this.
