Posts by Billen76

39

How to politely refuse a last chance meeting with the elders?

by bottleofwater in

the elders are giving me a chance to meet up with them a last time in order to try to prevent a disfellowshipping.

one of the elders will call me in two days to see what i think because i told him that i don't want to be in the religion anymore.

how can i politely and painlessly refuse?

Billen76

Tell them you are wearing a hidden microphone and are recording the whole conversation.

If you just want some fun, tell it after the meeting.

31

SHOCKING Fred Franz Talk

by brotherdan in

i'm sure many of you have heard this (i have the entire talk, btw), but breaking it up into these clips makes it even more shocking.. this is from the filthy harlots own mouth!.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmkdwk5svxm.

I don't think they even used prober dictionairies to look up words. When checking the greek texts with an interlinear translation and Koine-dictionairy, many expressions and words in the NWT seems to be grabbed from classical Greek, modern Greek or just by pure insertion or homemade invention..

An example of this is the translation of "kolasis".

Gr. "kolasis" means punishment, torment or punishment by torment.

The NWT translates this "cutting-off".

That means that the passage in Matt. 25:46 does not say:

" And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”"

but rather

"And these will depart into eternal punishment by [torment], but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”"

http://www.forananswer.org/Matthew/Mt25_46.htm

The reason for doing this is obvious: They wished to change the passages in the bible to support their own doctrine which denies Hell as a Christian teaching, so that when JW's read the bible, they would find "biblical evidence" that supported their own belief. So they went fishing for expressions and justifications for them in various dictionairies and other bible translations.

31

SHOCKING Fred Franz Talk

by brotherdan in

i'm sure many of you have heard this (i have the entire talk, btw), but breaking it up into these clips makes it even more shocking.. this is from the filthy harlots own mouth!.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmkdwk5svxm.

Billen76

They probably looked up in the various bibletranslations on the marked, and picked out the renderings that suited the watchtower doctrine the most (among those renderings from Grebers translation). With a few alterings and nonsense-explanations to justify them, they send out a "better" translation (for jw's).

The NWT is a fraud especially the NT part. The OT in NWT is actually a fine work, if weren't for the alterings that The Society later made (but this was made by hired scholars prior to "the commitee").

Since the first edition, later revisions have changed passages that was "controversial" to WTS doctrine...still with no sound justification in Greek or Hebrew gramma.

31

SHOCKING Fred Franz Talk

by brotherdan in

i'm sure many of you have heard this (i have the entire talk, btw), but breaking it up into these clips makes it even more shocking.. this is from the filthy harlots own mouth!.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmkdwk5svxm.

Billen76

FF starts out with first llie here: "At any rate, I was scheduled to go to Oxford College"

http://www.wordfamine.com/NewWorldTranslation.html

31

SHOCKING Fred Franz Talk

by brotherdan in

i'm sure many of you have heard this (i have the entire talk, btw), but breaking it up into these clips makes it even more shocking.. this is from the filthy harlots own mouth!.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmkdwk5svxm.

Billen76

Jehovahs Witnesses - The Religion of the Disillusioned Who Just Continues On and On.

Listening to this and comparing to the other stories of Fred Franz' doings, there is no doubt in my mind, that FF had been long time disillusioned before he made this talk. I dare even say, that man did not believe it himself. He knew better but continued anyway.

25

Those who have Judeo-Christian perspective: Is Satan a poor strategist?

by SweetBabyCheezits in

so supposedly.... the devil had access to all the prophecies written about jesus, right?

it was all "written aforetime" so he knew in advance the details that would help people identify the messiah.

he was aware that, for the sake of god's will, jesus would have to die.. why didn't satan just protect jesus?

Billen76

If we create our own terms and conditions, it is never very difficult to then prove them illogical only to dismiss them. This especially counts when we are dealing with irrational aspects of life. Fear is irrational, love is irrational, yet we all know them as part of our existance. Can you plan love? Do you know how and when you will hate?

If we assume, that (hu)man was MEANT to eat the fruit, that eating the fruit was a natural part of (hu)mans developement, that it is part of our inheritance that we invoidable have taken part in eating the fruit of knowledge from the moment we became aware, where does that place God in the "equation"?

What IS God then. It is said, God is love and it is said God is spirit. then what is love and what is spirit? Is love a person? Is spirit?

26

Children have basic human rights, why does the US ignore this right in regards to JW's Blood Doctrine?

by sabastious in

i can't physically or sexually abuse my child, at least legally.. why?.

because my country, and others alike, have adopted a code of ethics surrounding children.. ...they have basic human rights.... these rights transcend the family unit and it's jurisdiction.. that being said, how do jws hide behind "freedom of religion" when sentencing their children to suicide?.

why can't i start a religion that says it's ok to murder people?

Billen76

But there is not one solution that adresses all parts of the problem. There is concern, that may cause the surroundings to react.

Usually, as we see it often with JW-parents who are to have their child operated, they silently agree with the local authority to let them take responsebility of saving the child by allowing a bloodtransfusion to take place....and not telling the child or any others. Or the doctors may operate without making a direct note in the journal that a bloodtransfusion have taken place.

Local authorities may also decide to remove a child, if he childs basic needs is not taken care of by the parents or if abuse is taking place. That is done in regard to basic law that regards everyone.

A child who have been psychlogically abused may need to psychological help to accept that they are "good enough". Just ordinairy care and acceptance may also be enough (over time)

Information that equips the individual with tools to eveluate the practices and teachings of their religious beliefs is also very important for everybody.

This is just for starters.

I think that what is most important is to realize, that it is life in itself that is important over all (or Life is Sacred, if you please). The rest is just discussions about life and how we make the best of it, as individuals as well as a society.

26

Children have basic human rights, why does the US ignore this right in regards to JW's Blood Doctrine?

by sabastious in

i can't physically or sexually abuse my child, at least legally.. why?.

because my country, and others alike, have adopted a code of ethics surrounding children.. ...they have basic human rights.... these rights transcend the family unit and it's jurisdiction.. that being said, how do jws hide behind "freedom of religion" when sentencing their children to suicide?.

why can't i start a religion that says it's ok to murder people?

Billen76

Blondie.

I am not trying to make it simple, but I believe one needs to take a stand and decide what is most important and why. I am not against religion, faith or personal principles, but I may object to the way some make use of faith and religion.

In regard to the discussions I have currently particiated in, I may add that I judge religions by the thumb rule: If the aspects of the religion induces fears or terror, I will discard them from my life. (the "Fear-And-Let-US-Secure-You" aspect)

Having the freedom and rights is one thing. How we make use of the freedom is another thing, but it is by this we show what we are made of or the nature of the project we are supporting.

Recently I watched a program on the televison, that showed how priests in some christian denominations throwed acid on children in order to drive percieved demons out of the children. Those children was scarred and defaced for life. Others were banished to life in enclosed buildings or basements where they shaked in fear whenever someone approached them. They were made to believe they were possesed and evil by nature, and thus had to avoid contact with good people, as they would only ruin good people.

We also have to deal with these kind of mad driven religions, wether they call themselves christian or something else. Though we cannot tell people what to believe, we can make sure the children gets protected from the most dangerous ideas of the fanatics.

3

Dumbing down of the Witness Children

by wannabefree in

perhaps dumbing down is the wrong term, but here is my personal observation, i wonder if others have experienced this.. you know how in the ministry you might meet someone and have to educate them about their own religion before you can teach them that it is wrong?.

i have noticed this with my kids.

i like to think of myself as a reasonable person, moderate, i have tried over the years to acquire balance about "worldly" people, teaching my kids not to be so judgmental, leaving the ultimate judging regarding a person's faith in jesus and jehovah's hands.

Billen76

You are most certainly not the only one, wannabefree. Many many jw's belive they can subtly influence the developement of their family and congregation. Some becomes elders, thinking they can influence the spirit of the congregation. The problem is, that it is all a lie, but a lie, that may keep the members tied to the Organisation because "they're not that bad". And so, with time, they may start to listen to the public speaks, the CO's call for them to be pioneers that "helps" people, actually read the articles becoming true jw's in time.

I think that I had some older friends who tried to influence me this way. The result was I became a pioneer, dedicating my life to serve the Organisation's needs. Now, I do not look that kindly on them, though I believe they meant well.

I know the implication and complications. It is not so easy and not always very simple, but I believe that good ole x-jv Michael Jackson actually had a good point:

They're Out To Get You, Better Leave While You Can
Don't Wanna Be A Boy, You Wanna Be A Man
You Wanna Stay Alive, Better Do What You Can
So Beat It, Just Beat It

You Have To Show Them That You're Really Not Scared
You're Playin' With Your Life, This Ain't No Truth Or Dare
They'll Kick You, Then They Beat You,
Then They'll Tell You It's Fair
So Beat It, But You Wanna Be Bad

Just Beat It, Beat It, Beat It, Beat It
No One Wants To Be Defeated
Showin' How Funky Strong Is Your Fight
It Doesn't Matter Who's Wrong Or Right
Just Beat It, Beat It
Just Beat It, Beat It
Just Beat It, Beat It
Just Beat It, Beat It

25

Those who have Judeo-Christian perspective: Is Satan a poor strategist?

by SweetBabyCheezits in

so supposedly.... the devil had access to all the prophecies written about jesus, right?

it was all "written aforetime" so he knew in advance the details that would help people identify the messiah.

he was aware that, for the sake of god's will, jesus would have to die.. why didn't satan just protect jesus?

Billen76

I am not suggesting solely a spiritualization of the events. What I am saying is, that all these are figures explaining parts of the consequences of the choice we have. I think, that if one tries to rationalize the texts, one will never understand them and illogical contradictions will then allways surface disrupting the picture of belief one have.