i have been noticing in various threads that many former jehovah's witnesses in here feel a burden of guilt about having been a jehovah's witness.
mostly talk about how terrible they feel for having imposed wtbts beliefs and strictures on people, especially on people they love.
i am beginning to believe that this is a key trigger for people when they finally get up to the point where they feel they must leave the society.
Concerning the burden of guilt:
Much of this I feel comes from staying too long, while being aware. Also, we are taught to be harsh on ourselves in the jw society. We all need to get rid of the fears, that we all have or have had. It goes deeper than we sometimes think and affects our confidence in ourselves..
i have been noticing in various threads that many former jehovah's witnesses in here feel a burden of guilt about having been a jehovah's witness.
mostly talk about how terrible they feel for having imposed wtbts beliefs and strictures on people, especially on people they love.
i am beginning to believe that this is a key trigger for people when they finally get up to the point where they feel they must leave the society.
As for me, I just kept feeling less and less proud of what I was participating in.
I had a discussion about the nazi era in Germany, where my "opponent" in the discussion claimed, that the ordinairy german did not know anything about what was going on. I objected, saying that the problem was not totally ignorance, but rather that the german people havee been brainwashed by constant propaganda, to accept the nazi policies of KZ-camps and the like. I got angry saying, that the ordinairy german would of course know, that the jewish neighbours and friends were just disappearing, their shops wrecked and themselves humiliated in public. They maybe did not know eveything that was going on, but they saw enough to be able to react. They didn't, because they were blinded.
I guess that argument just plaqued my thoughts. I started to count how many I once knew, that had been DF's through time. I got the count to 35!! I started to think more seriously about what I was actually participating in then.
Besides, I really never thought my life as the paradise they kept telling me it was....and the promissed blessings of being a long time never seemed to be fullfilled. On the contrary: the most loyal pioneers allways seemed to suffer sadness and depression. Nice depressed pioners.
What prompted me to finally leave, was my littlebrother suicide. By that time I simply could not look myself in the mirror. I thought, I may not be able to change what's done, but I can stop participating and condoning practices I thought wrong.
I started to discuss my feelings and view on things in a danish forum about religion and found out, that those thoughts of mine, that had been ridiculed inside JW, was recognized, understood and agreed upon by many others. It was NOT just me who was weird and out-of-line. Many others have thought the same, and my perception of the christian message in NT I found out was totally in line with the "normal" christian community....in Denmark.
Much to tell, but that is pretty much the way the realization happened to me.
Quote Ding
<< The question is why so many continue after they have become disillusioned. >>
1. They don't want to lose family and friends.
2. They have too much effort invested in the WTS to risk throwing it away:
"What if the WTS is right after all?"
3. They don't think there is anywhere else to go:
"If this isn't the truth, what is?
End quote
I believe we sometimes have dig a bit deeper and find some base fears or wishes, that is played upon by the WTS (or other controlling religions for that matter). So I will reply:
1. Insecurity of social acceptance (a wish for or fear of loosing)
2. Insecurity in one self (a wish for being assurred or fear of being insufficient/"not good enough")
3. Insecurity in the unknown. (a wish for a safe enviroment or fear of the unknown/of changes)
If on glances atthe back cover of the new elders book, we will see the elders in front as the wise man guiding the listening and admirering family before him. A protector, a guide. Isn't that just a nice picture to see one self in?
But what if the elder becomes disillusoned? Can he let go of that picture? Will he start redefining his advices and his part, continuing to guide and protect? Guide in what? Protect from what? To keep "them" safe from the Organisations rule and control? :-)
Or will he let go of the picture and become a "normal" human being like the rest of the worlds population, nor wiser nor dumper than the rest? Can he believe in his fellow human beings capability to handle the truth (about "The Truth") and their own lifes?
Or will he insist on being "the protector" and "the guide" for the people, feeling insulted when "they" insist on handling their own problems and defining their own lifes? Perhaps trying to force his position as guide and protector
The willing and the unwilling. There is a difference.
The question is not wether they are delusional or not. The question is why so many continue after they have become disillusioned.
most of us x-jw's at one point no doubt defended the jw's when called a cult.
althought being out since 95', when i first came here it took awhile before i could use the cult word to describe the jw religion.
finding out about the pedophile scandal was disgusting, but it was probably finding out here about the wts history and terrible personal experiences of some on this board that made me finally admit that the jw's were a cult.
Hi Debator
Actually, the concept explained in the bible is that every christian is King and Priest and their body is to be their temple. It is very amazing that Jehovahs Witnesses can get those writings to mean, that they are to be submissive under a theocratic dictatorship. In fact, the bible explains the exact opposite, namely that we ALL are Kings and Priests, not over others but over our own lifes, bowing only to Christ in Heaven. The Christian body as a Kingdom where all a kings and priests. How can that point be missed!?
Tit. 2:15 only talks about speaking with authority, when talking about doing good deeds. Read Titus in full, then the meaning is clear. (btw. The letters to Timotheus to Titus, does not exist in Codex Vaticanus)
James 2 1-13 talks about not showing partiality between rich and poor and not judging people according to law - not to oppress any by any standard. The conclusion is:
James 2:12,13 "So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment."
The base christianity is that salvation comes through faith, not through actions. And faith means you have to BELIEVE that Christ will work through you and that you do not need the letter of a law to show love. Because love comes from within and not from the written letters. Belief, and you are forgiven for your sins, that is described by the letters of the law. Thus God gives salvation through grace and encourages the christian through inspired words to do good deeds toward our neighbour. And the christian is king and priest to minister his faith and how it is expressed in the world.
It makes a world of difference between what I call christian religion and what must be named cultish religion. Christian religion inspires the believer to gain perspective of their life and deal with fear, personal responsebility and freedom, while the cultish religion seeks to use religious writings to etablish a system of power and justify dictators by empowering them with a God-given right.
In "real life" things usually get mixed somewhat between the two described polarities here, as people tend to want to give their own oppinions the power of being Gods will, superceeding "the others" who is merely speaking "human words". So when I judge an Organisation to be a cult, it is mainly based upon that the Organisation leans heavily towards the cultish polarity in its perception of God.
most of us x-jw's at one point no doubt defended the jw's when called a cult.
althought being out since 95', when i first came here it took awhile before i could use the cult word to describe the jw religion.
finding out about the pedophile scandal was disgusting, but it was probably finding out here about the wts history and terrible personal experiences of some on this board that made me finally admit that the jw's were a cult.
The first time the thought struck me, was when I tried to play the old Ultima 7 "The Black Gate" game. The story of "The Fellowship" I thought then, was directed at Jehovahs Witnesses. Another one of Satans arrows sent against the Truth. *sigh*
The image of Own the Shipwright, who as member of The Fellowship is to have a statue erected by The Fellowship, for being an outstanding shipwright, himself writing books about himself, the blind admiration of The Fellowships members and the proud Branch Leader bragging of how great Owen has become by being a Fellowship member and what their "Triad of Inner Strength" had brought into his life, just rang a bell. In the end it turned out Owens ships sunk as soon as they hit stormy waters and his designs was filled with fatal flaws. He committed suicide upon realization, the statue was cancelled and the Branch Leader frowned upon hearing his name mentioned.
Just a story and while you certainly may find diversions from the Jehovahs Witnesses beliefs, the very selfglorification of the organisation with its use of "examples" among the witnesses to boast about how great effect their teachings have on witnesses lifes simply is striking. Also it is typical how jw's thrive on the prestige they can get inside the congregation, percieving themselves as born leaders, while they in fact make a terrible mess of things.
I guess that is what JW offers and in the same time it is what causes the greatest damage to the heart and mind. In my eyes, you have not awakened fully, untill you can see you have been in a cult (with a religious theme). It is so obvious, that it can only because one is still more or less under the influence of the mental control The Governing Body "provides", if one still does not see it.
no, charles taze russell was not a pennsylvania freemason!.
this is the answer i received in a letter: .
"after a search of our records, we determined that the three russell's were not members of our organization.
Thank you for the information, ms. Barbara Anderson.
However, the letter only answers that C.T. Russell never were a member of the Pennsylvania lodge, the English or the irish lodges. (or, he does not appear).
I allways get suspicious when I get answers with possible loopholes. Is it possible, that C.T. Russell once were a member of another lodge in USA other than in Pennsylvania?
the elders are giving me a chance to meet up with them a last time in order to try to prevent a disfellowshipping.
one of the elders will call me in two days to see what i think because i told him that i don't want to be in the religion anymore.
how can i politely and painlessly refuse?
That should not help anything. As soon as you have stated (in writing) that you no longer wish to be a JW, the only thing that will prevent a DF'ing is to tell you had doubts, give some questions and state:
"NOW I understand. I can't believe I have been so stupid to listen to such slender about the WTS and JW's. I will never have anything to do with that apostate anymore. Thank you for helping me. Can I please get an elder to study with me. I think I need it."
I guess the choice is between being able to live with your JW-family or to live with yourself.
In any case, honesty and selfconfidence usually gets you much further than hiding and trying to pretend. They can smell it and decides wether thy feel superior in front of you or ashamed and embarrashed....usually.
the elders are giving me a chance to meet up with them a last time in order to try to prevent a disfellowshipping.
one of the elders will call me in two days to see what i think because i told him that i don't want to be in the religion anymore.
how can i politely and painlessly refuse?
Tell them you are wearing a hidden microphone and are recording the whole conversation.
If you just want some fun, tell it after the meeting.
i'm sure many of you have heard this (i have the entire talk, btw), but breaking it up into these clips makes it even more shocking.. this is from the filthy harlots own mouth!.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmkdwk5svxm.
I don't think they even used prober dictionairies to look up words. When checking the greek texts with an interlinear translation and Koine-dictionairy, many expressions and words in the NWT seems to be grabbed from classical Greek, modern Greek or just by pure insertion or homemade invention..
An example of this is the translation of "kolasis".
Gr. "kolasis" means punishment, torment or punishment by torment.
The NWT translates this "cutting-off".
That means that the passage in Matt. 25:46 does not say:
" And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”"
but rather
"And these will depart into eternal punishment by [torment], but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”"
http://www.forananswer.org/Matthew/Mt25_46.htm
The reason for doing this is obvious: They wished to change the passages in the bible to support their own doctrine which denies Hell as a Christian teaching, so that when JW's read the bible, they would find "biblical evidence" that supported their own belief. So they went fishing for expressions and justifications for them in various dictionairies and other bible translations.
