Posts by Giordano

19

Children of adult ex-jw's

by man in black in

my wife and i were both jw's for the past 28 years.

we left two years ago, we wrote our da letters and split.. my wife felt very contained, there was no room to grow.

i started to fade slowly, but when my mom died, i saw the complete lack of love from the brothers and that sealed the deal for me.. we have two sons, 22 and 26, who we raised as witnesses, not the die hard type, just try and do your best.

Giordano

My son was not yet born when we walked out, today he is 42 and has no experience being a JW, we spared him that. However because of our JW relatives he has knowledge of the parameters and limitations we dealt with. After understanding what his mom and I used to believe and what our life style was like he is greatly appreciative not to have been raised in it. If we had raised him in it and then reversed course or more appropriately charged forward I think he would have greatly appreciated that. But it would have left some degree of scaring. I think you have clarified important things for your sons. You took the chains off and it took courage.

On the other hand I am often disturbed at the time I wasted as a witness, the years lost, knocking on doors, attending meetings etc. My wife of many years is more stoic, "We met one another, we pioneered together and then after a few years we got out, and started a family, what would you have wished for instead of that?" I am where I am and appreciative for that.

How do you go back and make the kind of changes that if you could would also change everything? You can't. Your not the same person you were then, they are not the same sons.

Your older son is angry, I am too. I wasted ten years of my life. But there were also good things, friends and relationships. Your younger son is more spiritual...... good, he responds to other dynamics at work in the human condition. One is angry at the deception and falsehoods of religion. A false religion can lead their followers to destruction and ruin. Your son's anger is reasonable........ he will not allow falsehood to influence him. The son who is willing to approach the spiritual side of life will find a balance that makes him strong and healthy. You have a warrior and a poet. Honor them and they should honor you and your wife. You’re still a family, congratulations.

88

Please read and sign ... Grace had a scarey fall ...

by wannabefree in

jw
friends

big hug for you!

i am glad you are okay.

you are a strong woman.. so sorry grace.

Giordano

Grace I'm going to give you two choices, its time for a cell phone. You can buy a cheap phone at Wal-Mart and some minutes and not use it but have it with you with emergency numbers or just 911. Or better yet you can get one of those alert units you wear indoors and out so that you can summon the police/fire department and notify your contact list by just pressing one button (especially good around the house).

Now you go get some extra protection so we can continue enjoying your posts.

12

The Governing Body is on the Phone and they need Help!

by Giordano in

jw
friends

here's my premise; one day, out of the blue, you are asked to consult with the gb.

your told that they have 'new light', armageddon is a spiritual battle and they have 'awakened' to the fact that this system of things will not be going away anytime soon, perhaps not for another 2,000 years!

with this new understanding they realize that just about everything is going to have to change if they want to survive as an organization.. to deal with this new reality now and into the future they would like to hear ideas that are practical, spiritual, nurturing, helpful and stimulating.. .

Giordano

Here's my premise; one day, out of the blue, you are asked to consult with the GB. Your told that they have 'new light', Armageddon is a spiritual battle and they have 'awakened' to the fact that this system of things will not be going away anytime soon, perhaps not for another 2,000 years! With this new understanding they realize that just about everything is going to have to change if they want to survive as an organization.

To deal with this new reality now and into the future they would like to hear ideas that are practical, spiritual, nurturing, helpful and stimulating.

36

Confessions of a Wayward Pioneer

by Giordano in

jw
friends

frank was concerned that they might be dumping them in the woods or something so he wanted me to check it out.. i had a hard time convincing h and h to let me join them in service, finally i dropped a few hints that i was a pretty laid back brother who didn't always follow wtbts policy......... which wasn't far from the truth.

this guy was hard core.

Giordano

Thanks for the kind words from every one. I hadn't realized that there were more responses. So A few brief answers and a thought or two.

Wasanelder It's not that long. I tried to make a spelling correction after I hit submit (I'm such a bad speller that one time my spell check came back with....WTF?) and then I fumbled around and the next thing I knew it it it repeated itself two more times. Does anyone know if there is a way I can delete the repetitions myself or who to contact?

"please tell us more about how normal people cope with being in the JW organization". Heartofaboy here's how......being a faithful JW is all about honesty, If you can fake that, you've got it made.

Thank you DagothUr.

Aussie Oz, what happened to you is the scariest thing I've learned on this forum, that so many families have been split apart over this silly cult.

TMS "The best part of the story is sparing your son the JW life", He agrees with you.

12

America's Most Wanted profiles JW Elder Child Molester

by out4good3 in

last night on amw, they profiled the jw elder child molester.

they detailed how he'd planned to be on the run by stashing money all around his house, how he quickly got a divorce when he was being investigated, sold off his assets in a race car business and disappeared.

one lady interviewed incognito, told of how he was a trusted member in the congregation with privileges.. did anyone else see this segment?

Giordano

Thanks for the link MJ5, Do Elders take a stupid test? Jeez!

88

Debunking the Watchtower - Slam Dunks and Solid Arguments

by Nickolas in

there's a wide cross section of thinkers on this board, representing christian belief and non-belief and points in between, the agnostics.

there is most definitely a minority, mostly silent, of devoted jehovah's witnesses present, too, but their contribution to the dialogue and dynamic of the board is minimal.

that small minority aside, it can be said the people who venture into here to communicate with one another share a common paradigm, and that is the watchtower is built on a foundation of clay.

Giordano

I don't know the family dynamic your dealing with but your concerns are loud and clear. You also said "I should emphasize that my objective is not to turn my wife into a non-believer. I'm not sure she could handle it, even if I could."

So if I understand, the goal is to encourage her to keep her faith in god but to help her ease out of the JW world and focus on a gentler humanistic religion that does not seek to divide family.

The bad news is that the WTBTS has had years to condition their members to think in certain ways as you well know.

The good news is that over the years they have also created serious internal contradictions. Which is one of the primary reasons they are a failure. Some of those contradictions can be exploited but one must approach those conversations carefully.

The discussion I would start with is the bibles teaching about women especially in the NT. Your actually attaching how the WTBTS treats women but not directly. Your premise is the bible has a history of treating women as second class citizens. If it doesn't bother her it will certainly come to bother her that the teaching may not be inspired. And that will be the start of a debate that hopefully will have her thinking about her place in the congregation.

Examining the source is the better and most respectful tactic. The Society teaches, as many religions do, that women are basically inferior. To talk to family members who are still in I have read Bart Erdman for the critical historic approach. But I was very surprised by John Shelby Spong who was the Episcopal bishop of Newark now retired. After reading him I decided not to hold that bishop thing against him LOL. He is deeply concerned that Christians have gotten way ahead of themselves in believing that the bible is the inspired word of god. In the two books I have read "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism", and the very readable "The Sin of the Scriptures". He examines sex, gays, women, etc. and looks at the source material that has promoted hatred, the beating of children, slavery and the treatment of women and why they should not be an influence on our lives. He maintains that it is wrong too often to be trusted as such. That there are important things in the bible but none of it is inspired of god. It is not god's word it is mans. Spong goes to the heart of these issues with reverence and respect which means a believer is not being attacked. He seeks to encourage a more loving relationship with god and to study the loving parts of scripture.

On the issue of women he makes a convincing argument that Paul's words were simply Paul's letter's, one sided conversations filled with Paul's thoughts that must be considered in the context of his education and times and how he was raised. To understand why Paul had distain or suspicions about women he quotes Paul's words to show he was a very conflicted person. That in modern times we have moved well past Paul's assumptions that women were clearly inferior.

Once you are talking about women's rights you are on common ground. Once one understands that the treatment of women is not inspired by god that religion is still being guided by old testament misogamy you have a breach that will open the door for further discussion.

The WTBTS is so weak now that even a small deflection may be all it takes.

119

Great Books Thread

by Open mind in

what are the top 5 books you would either recommend and/or have had the greatest influence on you?

(if you only want to mention one or two that's fine as well.).

if you feel like it, please briefly tell us why.

Giordano

I always have a couple of books working at the same time. Lite night time reading by my bedside. Heavy stuff in the bathroom (no pun intended) just early morning is best for non fiction and theology (which is sort of fiction I guess). And for lunch a good solid book that compels me to eat slowly and spend an hour treating myself to something wonderful. Plus A couple of heavy books, I mean heavy as in weight, to do arm curls with while reading something else, that's my version of multi tasking!

My selections should be in your local library

Best Theology reading: John Shelby Spong (was an Episcopal bishop of Newark)

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=john+shelby+spong+&x=20&y=21

He's a believer but is rewriting the way we should read and evaluate scripture. He's tossing out a lot of the goofy stuff anti women, gays etc.

And to prove that I am a well balanced person:

Bart Erdman,Bart D. Ehrman is an American New Testament scholar, currently a Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. And he is an agnostic.

He is the author of a number of books, including Misquoting Jesus (2005), God's Problem (2008), and Jesus, Interrupted (2009)

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_11?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=bart+ehrman&sprefix=bart+ehrman

Sci Fi and Fantasy, George R.R. Martin, The Song of Ice and Fire Book One (check out how many reviews there are).

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_5_17?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=george+r+r+martin&sprefix=george+r+r+martin

WARNING!! This series is highly addictive. Definitely start with book one.

History: To the Last Man by Jeff Shaara, World War One, I know you saw the movie.........why go there again? It's what I didn't know that was so fascinating. Anyway he blends accurate historical fact with enough fiction to allow the reader to experience a deeper involvement in the story.

http://www.amazon.com/Last-Man-Novel-First-World/dp/0345461347/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1291492303&sr=1-10

15

What proportion of Jehovah's Witnesses will make a convert in their lifetime?

by stapler99 in

jw
friends

in another thread it was being discussed how inefficient the door-to-door preaching is, and i thought this raised an interesting question - what proportion of jehovah's witnesses will make a convert in their lifetime?.

in my experience, i can think of two or three people that my parents have studied with and who were later baptized.

but i know of so few baptisms that it is hard for me to think about it.

Giordano

I had two, both high school buddies. One began studying to get out of the military and there by missed Vietnam. The other pioneered with me (see my post "confessions of a wayward pioneer, at

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/202517/1/Confessions-of-a-Wayward-Pioneer and went to Bethel. The way I looked at it I might have 'saved' two guys from getting wounded or killed in one of our stupid, needless and tragic wars. Mission accomplished!

I was a miserable pioneer and wouldn't teach the blood doctrine or Armageddon!

I do remember a couple of sisters who accounted for more conversions then the entire congregation. "Each one to their gifts' would have been a smart policy for the WTBTS to follow. The door to door ministry was over in the sixties. When I'd go out in service on a Saturday or Sunday morning you could hear the TV's set to a 'Preacher man' show or pro wrestling! Either one was doing a whole lot better then we were.

5

Two Questions

by Giordano in

jw
friends

i went to the biblical research & commentary international that mouthy mentioned in the "i stopped going to the kingdom hall" thread and clicked on a time magazine article which covered raymond franz's story.. .

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,922767-1,00.html.

in the article on page 2 it mentioned "as a refugee from bethel and his life's work, he found himself with few marketable skills, a $10,000 settlement from headquarters and $600 in personal savings.

Giordano

Thanks everybody, good points! He was at a devastating low, his whole life dismissed and demeaned by the WTBTS, even his closest friend/benefactor caught up in the 'scandal' and DF as well, that’s a lot to deal with. I hope the success of his 'second' career gave him back his life.

He was a hero of mine from the first time I heard about him and read his book.

5

Two Questions

by Giordano in

jw
friends

i went to the biblical research & commentary international that mouthy mentioned in the "i stopped going to the kingdom hall" thread and clicked on a time magazine article which covered raymond franz's story.. .

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,922767-1,00.html.

in the article on page 2 it mentioned "as a refugee from bethel and his life's work, he found himself with few marketable skills, a $10,000 settlement from headquarters and $600 in personal savings.

Giordano

I went to the Biblical research & Commentary International that Mouthy mentioned in the "I stopped going to the Kingdom Hall" thread and clicked on a Time magazine article which covered Raymond Franz's story.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,922767-1,00.html

In the article on page 2 it mentioned "As a refugee from Bethel and his life's work, he found himself with few marketable skills, a $10,000 settlement from headquarters and $600 in personal savings."

I am not concerned that they paid him $10,000 for forty years of service just curious about why. Does anyone know what that was about?

On Page 3 of the time story, after he was DF, he is quoted "There is no life outside the organization" is all he will say about the pain of his shunning'.

He is a much beloved man and I know that through his books he's helped many. To me he created a wonderful life for himself. How do you read his statement? Was he dealing with depression? Or did he feel very isolated?

Since there are people on this board who knew him I am interested in your opinion.