Posts by Listener

24

Jesus 1000 years and Satan's 1000 years in the abyss

by berrygerry in

the thread about satan in the abyss for 1000 years prompts a question.. jesus will rule for 1000 years.. jesus began ruling in 1914, which means his 1000 year reign will end in 2914.. satan will be abyssed for 1000 years.. if the end comes in 2020, satan will be abyssed in 2020, and then released in 3020.. what happens between 2914 and 3020?.

honest question..

Listener

You are right Apognophos, it is a doomsday prophecy for 1918. I found the quote on a list of failed prophecies. It was written in 1917.

I was trying to answer Berrygerry's question

Okay, I found a 78 WT which says that the 1000 year reign did not begin in 1914, but begins at Armageddon.

What was taught regarding this pre-1914 (or should I bother asking)?

The quote establishes the fact that at one time they were not teaching Jesus' 1,000 year millenial reign begins at Armageddon but had already commenced. The quote does do that

The trouble is due to the dawning of the Day of Christ, the Millennium. It is the Day of Vengeance, which began in the world war of 1914 and which will break like a furious morning storm in 1918

They were teaching that this was the dawn of the Golden Age which was the start of the Jesus' millenial rule which also coincided with the start of Jesus second presence and his Kingdom rule.

They changed their ideas from his millenial reign beginning in 1873 to 1914, then later they changed their idea of what 1914 represented. They maintained that it was the start of Jesus' kingdom rulership (but not his millenial rullership) and that it was now invisible presence, that is, it only occcurred in the heavenly realm.

It was all tied into their prophicies as to what was happening both on earth and in heaven. Each time their prophicies failed they came up with new light that altered their understanding of what supposedly occurred on certain dates. As we know, to this day, they continue with the teaching that 1914 had some significance but has evolved greatly from what they were initially teaching.

42

My Elderette returns for a final Bible Study session, after I avoided her for 2 months (very long post)

by Faithful Witness in

some of this will be repeat, since it's been a little while since i posted about my "bible study" sessions with miss k, my elderette.

we are talking about the name of jehovah.

thanks for talking with us today.

Listener

To that, Miss K said, "See... the way you put that, tells me that you are using some other source for your information. You did not get that from a Watchtower magazine. They never claimed that they reign over millions of people!!"

How stupid is that, of course they are not going to say it in their publications, they even try to paint a different picture of their position through the publications. It's not words that determine their idolization but it is the physical evidence.

When she used the excuse that Jesus wouldn't call Jehovah by his actual name because it was out of respect as he is his son, I would have been tempted to ask her where was that written in the Watchtower publications and wasn't she using some other source for her information. I obviously don't have your patience as this would only have annoyed her. I would have asked her why then, do the anointed call him Jehovah rather than father as they are also his sons.

Well done.

24

Jesus 1000 years and Satan's 1000 years in the abyss

by berrygerry in

the thread about satan in the abyss for 1000 years prompts a question.. jesus will rule for 1000 years.. jesus began ruling in 1914, which means his 1000 year reign will end in 2914.. satan will be abyssed for 1000 years.. if the end comes in 2020, satan will be abyssed in 2020, and then released in 3020.. what happens between 2914 and 3020?.

honest question..

Listener

1916 "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873." (The Time Is At Hand, Foreword, p 2, 1916)

1917 Pastor Russell's mission, in large part, was to advise Christendom of its impending end, in the time of world-wide trouble. It is the Divine judgment upon the nations. … There will be no chance of escaping from destruction, through the nations. … The trouble is due to the dawning of the Day of Christ, the Millennium. It is the Day of Vengeance, which began in the world war of 1914 and which will break like a furious morning storm in 1918." (The Finished Mystery, 1917, p. 404)

The Millenium Prophecies

The Millenium began in 1873. (Thy Kingdom Come, page 305).

42

What did Jesus really mean, when he said he had made his Father's name known?

by Faithful Witness in

i am preparing for my meeting this friday with miss k. we are reviewing the bible teach book, and she is looking forward to "showing me some things about the divine name.

" i don't know what she might pull out of her hat this time... but that section of the teach book is so completely assanine, i don't even know what to say.

) what did jesus mean when he said that to his father?.

Listener

Thanks for the update Faithful Witness, I am looking forward to your follow up. You have gone into great detail with your discussions which includes the responses of an experienced JW and this does help me to see just how easily they learn how to distort the truth.

42

God listens and RESPONDS to your prayer if you know how to log on to Him! Here is the proof.

by exWTslave in

all my family members and friends (that include some elders) advised me to divorce my wife whose only joy was to pick up fight with me for everything i do, except my grand-mother who said: when you married her, you looked for only her good pointher regular pioneering despite having an opposing family.

for being good, you will ultimately reap something far better through her.

stick on to her.

Listener

Using your method to achieve such a result then we have the answer to all our problems. Once we know how to log onto him we can ask him to bring peace to nations, peace to otherwise wicked people and to change the personalities of all those criminals. They need do nothing to change their bad ways, it only takes us to request these things through prayer.

I had no idea and I am still very sceptical but happy that your domestic situation is now pleasant.

56

JWs: not creationists but believe in creation...

by TheStumbler in

i've been having a bit of an email exchange with elder dad and i need some advice.

i thought i was getting through to him but i think my criticism and tone became a bit too strident in my last email and now he thinks that i am attacking him personally.

i think he has dismissed everything i said because he perceived me as 'overally critical, and rude.. .

Listener

You weren't rude to him but he says you were so you should probably write to him and say you are sorry if you offended him and you didn't mean to.

Explain to him the main point you were expressing to him. Take the opportunity to give him another example and one that is even more water tight such as the definition of 'generation'. Quote the history of JW teachings on this definition and all the changes. Then ask him questions, such as - Could you explain from the bible exactly how they came up with this latest definition? Why have they constantly changed the definition? What was it that caused them to change the definition each time? The bible itself establishes what a generation is, why have they chosen their own definition? Is it reasonable to expect earnest bible students to accept this new definition that is well outside any logical understanding of the term?

56

JWs: not creationists but believe in creation...

by TheStumbler in

i've been having a bit of an email exchange with elder dad and i need some advice.

i thought i was getting through to him but i think my criticism and tone became a bit too strident in my last email and now he thinks that i am attacking him personally.

i think he has dismissed everything i said because he perceived me as 'overally critical, and rude.. .

Listener

The Stumbler, I can understand why this is so frustrating and it leads me to believe that the WTBTS does this sort of thing intentionally. That is, they redefine common day words into meanings that don't exist and are not recognized by common use language. There are a number of words that they do this with. It is worthwhile considering why they do this.

Firstly, when they change their viewpoint on a matter they will try to defend themselves (where they can) by saying they always have had this view. Changing the meaning of a word helps them to do this so that they can say they never actually said (or meant) something that they obviously did in the past.

Secondly and probably more importantly, it allows them an easy escape route. This gives them an out for discussing the real issue at hand and sidetracks the conversation away from the very important message you are trying to get accross.

In your situation, does it really matter if he or the WTBTS do not want to acknowledge that what they believe is creationilsm? There is no point in getting tied down with one word. Just move on and get to the issues that you really want to discuss and sidetrack the use of the word 'creationilsm' because it is causing a stumbling block.

That is why I love this forum and the discussions here as they help to show the many tricks that the WTBTS has taught their followers and they have no idea.

It causes a circular thinking within the JW and they can never get down to the real issues with any logical understanding. It is no wonder that so many of them are stressed out or depressed. The WTBTS tries to rewire their brains and it causes confussion which they can't get to the bottom of, it is so much easier to accept as black and white anything that the WTBTS teaches them and this is why they will accept why 2 + 2 = 5.

24

Jesus 1000 years and Satan's 1000 years in the abyss

by berrygerry in

the thread about satan in the abyss for 1000 years prompts a question.. jesus will rule for 1000 years.. jesus began ruling in 1914, which means his 1000 year reign will end in 2914.. satan will be abyssed for 1000 years.. if the end comes in 2020, satan will be abyssed in 2020, and then released in 3020.. what happens between 2914 and 3020?.

honest question..

Listener

Apognophos

Honestly I don't think this is a big doctrinal problem. For instance, as a number of posters here have pointed out, this period could be likened to the 120 years before the Flood, during which Noah supposedly warned his generation of the coming judgment. So far, that pre-Flood system has gotten 20 years' more warning than ours has, if the warning started in 1914. Mind you, I'm leaving aside the point that Noah's supposed preaching work is not mentioned in Genesis; I'm simply answering this from the perspective of JW doctrine.

You could use that argument with anything the WTBTS teaches. That is, 'I don't think this is a big doctinal problem'. Then you likened it to Noah's day. Fortunately, you qualify it with Noah just 'supposedly' warning his generation of the coming judgement. That was not the job that Noah was instructed to do. He was given the 120 years in order for him to fulfill God's requirements of building and stocking the Ark. In doing this he was declared a righteous man by doing God's will. The judgement had already been made and only Noah and his family were to survive. There was no coming of judgement. It was a time of preperation, not of a preaching work.

24

Jesus 1000 years and Satan's 1000 years in the abyss

by berrygerry in

the thread about satan in the abyss for 1000 years prompts a question.. jesus will rule for 1000 years.. jesus began ruling in 1914, which means his 1000 year reign will end in 2914.. satan will be abyssed for 1000 years.. if the end comes in 2020, satan will be abyssed in 2020, and then released in 3020.. what happens between 2914 and 3020?.

honest question..

Listener

Captain Obvious

Then why was the 100 (so far) year reign in between the two events not foretold? According to JW lore

They originally taught that they were living in Christ's millenial reign so when they changed this teaching this is one of the unanswered questions that arose. They used to call one of their magazines 'the Golden Age'. I think this Golden Age refers to the Millenial rule in which they were then living. When you tell a lie you forget that you have to keep telling more lies to cover all your basis.

Leolie wrote a post which explains a lot

To add to the confusion, the Society teaches that Jesus was enthroned as King in 1914. The Society still uses the phrase "Millennial Reign" to refer to Jesus' reign. So how he could have been enthroned as King and not start his Millennial Reign in 1914?

Of course, originally the belief was that Jesus became king in 1878 with the Millennium starting before or on 1874, so the Millennial Reign was supposed to be underway when Jesus became King, not after a very long delay afterward. Then in 1925 Rutherford updated the date of Jesus becoming King to 1914, with hints in the "Millions Now Living" campaign that the Millennium would begin shortly, e.g. in 1925. Then with the passage of time, the Millennium became indefinitely postponed with the date of Christ's enthronement stuck to 1914. The more time passes, the greater the disparity between the two becomes.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/122152/1/Are-we-in-Christs-1000-year-reign-yet

Once again it is just so difficult to make any sense out of teachings that don't add up.

19

Questions From Readers (w14, 11/15, p28): How are elders and ministerial servants appointed in each congregation?

by darkspilver in

questions from readers watchtower 2014, november 15, page 28-29: "how are elders and ministerial servants appointed in each congregation?".

that's all folks!.

dark spliver.

Listener

DarkSpilver, if you could display the whole article it would be appreciated, then we can have a proper discussion.