Posts by Listener

72

Why No Disfellowshipping Before 1952?

by blondie in

jw
friends

why was there no official arrangement before 1952 to disfellowship people?

was there a different procedure with a different name?

was no one committing disfellowshipping offenses?

Listener

Wow MacHislopp, it is hard to top that research, it is very thorough, thanks.

Cofty brought up the policy of 'probation' in the 60s and 70s, I was not aware of this and indeed, it can be found on the WT Library. The last mention was in 1972 W 2/15. The earliest mention in the Library (which only goes back to the 1950 Watchtower was in 1952 3/1 under 'reinstatement' (of disfellowshipping). 'QFR" W 1954 9/1 goes into much more detail as to when and how it applied

When does probation apply? Before disfellowshiping, during it, or after reinstatement?—L. D., United States.

If a brother has done some wrong that merits disfellowshiping, yet the congregation committee feels that he should not be disfellowshiped because of his sincere repentance or other extenuating circumstances, rather than disfellowshiping him the committee might put him on probation. The committee would set the terms of this probation according to their judgment, having in mind the facts or needs of the particular case involved. If the erring brother complies fully with the terms of the probation for the period of time prescribed by the committee the probation may then be lifted and no disfellowshiping takes place.

If a brother is disfellowshiped, however, he would not also be put on probation. He is cut off from the congregation and the congregation has nothing to do with him, exercises no control over him outside the congregation, puts no restrictions on him outside in the world....

If a disfellowshiped person shows sincere repentance and desires to be reinstated, the committee may reinstate him after the lapse of what it considers a suitable length of time. When this is done the committee may wish to impose some restraints and put the individual on probation. The committee may now do this, since the person has been reinstated and is again a part of the congregation, the congregation now having resumed dealings with the individual.

Hence, in answer to the question, a person may be put on probation without disfellowshiping or after reinstatement from being disfellowshiped, but it is completely illogical for the committee to try to establish probation over a person they cast out and do not even have dealings with. They only talk to him if he comes to them to discuss the matter of his reinstatement. To illustrate, a person in society may break a law. He is convicted and sent to jail. He has been removed from the community; he is not on probation when he is disfellowshiped from society and held in jail. But when he is released and returned to society he may be put on probation and have to live under certain restraints and report regularly to some officer. Or it may be that when he is found guilty instead of being sent to jail sentence may be suspended and he is put on probation, never being removed from society...

Notice their rules states

but it is completely illogical for the committee to try to establish probation over a person they cast out and do not even have dealings with

Yet this is exactly what they are doing today. Rather than placing no authority or rulership over a disfellowshipped person because he is no longer part of the congregation, they prescribe to the dfd person what they want him to do in order to be reinstated. Among other things he must attend meetings and demonstrate to them (not God) his repentance in some physical form. Interestingly, they don't call this 'probation' but within their own definitions this is what it is. In their own words, they are now acting in an illogical manner.

So in the past, if a person was seeking to be reinstated then he was at that point in time, accepted back as a member of the congregation and simply put on restrictions/restraints.

I had wondered why a person who was disfellowshipped and rejected from the congregation was still allowed to attend and actually participate in congregational worship by joining in the prayers and songs of praises. In the past this was addressed by allowing him back into the fold but placed on restrictions but today there is no explanation as to why they have this double standard.

5

JW's and the axe

by why144000 in

jw
friends

the current state of the jws reminds me of the old joke about the father passing on an axe to his son.

he says son, this axe has been used in our family for 5 generations.

we have changed the handle a few times and twice had to put on a new blade but it is still the same axe your great grandfather used.. .

Listener

Very good. Hopefully that son just recognizes it as a bit of notalgia and now uses a chain saw.

9

SHOCKING elder's talk: "..when we are baptized we abdicate all responsibility to think for ourselves.."

by yadda yadda 2 in

i found this recorded elder's talk (presumably genuine) quite disturbing in how he states that in order to maintain unity, jw's have given up thinking for themselves and passed over their thinking ability to the governing body.. "when you're baptized, your thinking is not your own anymore...your thinking is done for you...we carry out to the letter everything the society tells us to do..." .

his concluding statement "stop thinking for yourselves!".

there's the usual reference to the korah and those who challenged moses, but "you in the congregation are safe as long as you don't speak out against the elders and jehovah's organisation...".

Listener

It's not real Yadda, for one thing there is absolutely no background noise such as people coughing but if you listen to his other video's it becomes more obvious.

42

Copy of my DA Letter

by airborne in

jw
friends

this is my first time posting here, although i have been a visitor to it for around a year.

after doing a simple google search under "jehovah'switnesses" over a year ago, i found ttat.

i was deeply unhappy with the congregation and decided to educate myself, and boy what an education i have gotten so far.

Listener

Great letter Airborne, I particularly liked the PS. I also hope that you enjoy your newfound freedom.

8

Could it be

by bobld in

the aug. ad.

campaign of their web site was a lead in or preparing the r&f to use modern media for preaching.

an in the not to distance future dump the public watchtower and awake.save $$$$.

Listener

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N5t-Y-_cXk&list=UUCLreH8z5nWXuytHdH15FkQ

JW Struggle talks about this towards the end of the above youtube but he is going to provide more information later. He states that the org has orgained internet witnessing.

16

Rebranding of the Watchtower to JW.org - how long in the works?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

the transformation from watchtower to jw.org is nothing short of remarkable.. animated cartoons (caleb and sophia), the new jw.org slogan, international convention websites (featuring previously unthinkable entertainment in the kingdom hall) - how long do you think this has been in the works for?.

i feel very uneasy about what is happening - it's so sudden, seems like it all happened within the space of a year.. i sense some intelligence about all this, as if it has been some carefully orchestated performance - to dazzle and distract.. the kingdom ministry of 1999 was totally against the internet and now they seem to embrace it along with tablets and smartphones.. why the sudden change?

do you think it is anything to do with social media?.

Listener

What has the revamping actually achieved? It hasn't made any significant increase to their membership. I has caused an idolization of the JW org symbol and it has also saved the WTBTS heaps of money

14

BOE 2014-09-01 Our Kingdom Ministry PDF

by WatchTower87 in

to all congregations.

please arrange for this letter to be read to the congregation at the first service meeting after its receipt.

thereafter, it should be posted on the information board.

Listener

I had to laugh when I saw that too Hassan. Then there is this statement further on

How to Cultivate a Sense of Urgency About Preaching

A sense of urgency must be cultivated, and it is necessary to have it to survive the end of this system of things.

It's just so hard to believe that they write this sort of rubbish.

67

Child with brain tumour taken from UK hospital by JW parents

by Fe2O3Girl in

jw
friends

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28978655.

a five-year-old boy with a brain tumour has been taken without consent from hospital by his parents, sparking a major police hunt for the family.. ashya king was taken from southampton general hospital and is now believed to be in france with his parents and six siblings.. police said he needs constant medical care and there are "serious concerns" for his life if he is not found today.. brett king, 51, and naghemeh king, 45 removed him from the ward on thursday.. ashya's father was pictured taking him from the hospital"everyone is sending their love now.

we love you so much and we want to see you very soon and i love you so much and can't wait to see you.".

Listener

Maybe the blood issue does play a big part in this. Especially in the area of strained relationships and the so called threat that the hospital would get orders to take charge.

The little boy underwent surgery approximately 10 days before he was taken away. It is 99% likely that the parents told the hospital that under no circumstances would they permit a blood transfusion if it became necessary, pretty much standard procedure for a JW. The hospital would have told the parents that they would not hesitate to get a court order if it was necessary. This is going to cause a strained relationship because the hospital has a duty of care that they know they would have to take certain action if needed.

The claim by the father that the hospital had already 'threatened' to have their authority taken away is more than likely but it may not have been in relation to seeking alternative treatment but rather regarding the blood issue.

News reports say that the hospital were willing for them to get a second opinion and that they would also support his endeavours to seek alternative treatment elsewhere.

26

Letter of Reinstatement

by kayanow in

i'm new to this website and i thought i'd create a profile.

i was disfellowshipped in july of 2013 in another city.

i since moved and starting going to meeting about 6 months ago in my new city.

Listener

Kayanow, since the whole disfellowshipping arrangement is solidly backed by the bible, you will find all the answers you need there.

14

JW Stained Glass Windows!

by Atlantis in

found this over on one of the jw sites.. .. stained glass.

jehovahs witnesses assembly hall, montreal,.... .. .. petra.

Listener

W 2002 4/1

Regrettably, such practices as using religious images and repeating prayers by rote also discourage reasoning. These practices, along with impressive architecture, elaborate stained-glass windows, and captivating music, more or less define the extent of the religious experience of millions

W 1989 4/15

Oh, how beautifully she decks herself out! She is famed for her stately cathedrals with their imposing architecture and stained-glass windows, her bejeweled pagodas and wats, her time-honored temples and shrines. True to the stylized fashions set by the great harlot, her priests and monks are arrayed in costly robes of scarlet, purple, and saffron.—Revelation 17:1.

And then there is this quote, the mother of them all

W 69 10/15

When you first go into a Kingdom Hall

THE BUILDING ITSELF ...

Thus such religious appendages that are not in accord with Bible truth are not displayed at the Kingdom Hall, thus avoiding that which takes away from the worship “with spirit and truth.”

In this vein, you will also observe that there are no stained-glass windows, as in many churches, to help create a hushed aura of artificial sanctity. Instead, the spiritual atmosphere at the Kingdom Hall is genuine, springing from a real interest in true worship and Biblical instruction. And the light, natural surroundings in the hall encourage those present to be outgoing and friendly, not inhibited by a mysterious imposed solemnity.