Listener

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  35

  FYI all... Mike and Kim You Tube

  by ducatijoe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well if any did not know, mike and kim were shut down on you tube.. they are back on under kim mikey.. .

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  Listener

  Thanks Ducatijoe, looks like they're even more motivated now.
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  63

  w14 12/15-E Study Edition

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  click "premium download".

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  pdf: http://bayfiles.net/file/1kv2k/uaqn2y/w_e20141215.pdf.

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  Listener

  Wifibandit, there is a copyright on this material and it is illegal to copy it in full. Posting snippets for particular purposes can fall within fair use.

  Don't be surprised when this is deleted.
• 
  9

  For 46 years Jehovah's Witnesses compromised their worship in Mexico to retain ownership of material property

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qohven3gjlk.

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  Listener

  DHH here is the quote from the 1995 yearbook

  La Torre del Vigía de México—A Cultural Society
  "You will recall that back in 1932 La Torre del Vigía de México had been authorized by the government. However, there were obstacles because of the restrictions that the law imposed on all religions. Objections were raised to the house-to-house activity of the Witnesses, since the law stipulated that ‘every religious act of public worship must be held inside the temples.’ For the same reason, objections were raised to our conventions in public places. This was a problem, because these conventions were constantly getting larger. Owning property also presented problems, because the law required that every building used for religious purposes had to become federal property.
  For these and other reasons, the Society decided that it would be wise to reorganize, with a view to giving greater emphasis to the educational nature of our work. Therefore, on June 10, 1943, application was made to the Secretariat of Foreign Affairs to register La Torre del Vigía as a civil society, and this was approved on June 15, 1943.
  With this rearrangement, singing at our meetings was discontinued, and the meeting places became known as Halls for Cultural Studies. No audible prayers were said at meetings, though nothing could prevent a person from saying an earnest prayer silently in his heart. Every appearance of a religious service was avoided, and truly our meetings are designed for education. When Witnesses in other lands began to call their local groups “congregations,” the Witnesses in Mexico kept on using the term “companies.” House-to-house visits by the Witnesses continued, and with even more zeal; but direct use of the Bible at doors was avoided. Instead, publishers learned the texts by heart so that they could quote them. They also made good use of the book “Make Sure of All Things,” which is a compilation of Scripture quotations on many subjects. Only on return visits and on studies (which were termed “cultural” instead of “Bible”) was the Bible itself used.
  
  The principal work of Jehovah’s Witnesses remained the same, namely, preaching the good news of God’s Kingdom."
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  15

  pioneer book

  by itisme in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anyone have the pioneer book?

  the new one: fully accomplish your ministry.

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  Listener

  Why can't you simply order the Pioneer book at your Congregation? I'm sure there would be no problem supplying this highly educational book to any JW with a sincere interest in the house to house wrok.
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  7

  wh.gov logo

  by DavidG in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a question about the whitehouse web logo.

  i've only seen it on witehouse webvideos out of the wh.org website.

  it looks very much like a logo we all know.. a picture of mr. obama with the logo in the upper right corner taken drom a webvideo out of wh.org:.

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  Listener

  That is creepy. It would be great if the WH.org logo is used widely, it would confuse the public no end.
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  72

  Why No Disfellowshipping Before 1952?

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why was there no official arrangement before 1952 to disfellowship people?

  was there a different procedure with a different name?

  was no one committing disfellowshipping offenses?

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  Listener

  Wow MacHislopp, it is hard to top that research, it is very thorough, thanks.

  Cofty brought up the policy of 'probation' in the 60s and 70s, I was not aware of this and indeed, it can be found on the WT Library. The last mention was in 1972 W 2/15. The earliest mention in the Library (which only goes back to the 1950 Watchtower was in 1952 3/1 under 'reinstatement' (of disfellowshipping). 'QFR" W 1954 9/1 goes into much more detail as to when and how it applied

  When does probation apply? Before disfellowshiping, during it, or after reinstatement?—L. D., United States.

  If a brother has done some wrong that merits disfellowshiping, yet the congregation committee feels that he should not be disfellowshiped because of his sincere repentance or other extenuating circumstances, rather than disfellowshiping him the committee might put him on probation. The committee would set the terms of this probation according to their judgment, having in mind the facts or needs of the particular case involved. If the erring brother complies fully with the terms of the probation for the period of time prescribed by the committee the probation may then be lifted and no disfellowshiping takes place.

  If a brother is disfellowshiped, however, he would not also be put on probation. He is cut off from the congregation and the congregation has nothing to do with him, exercises no control over him outside the congregation, puts no restrictions on him outside in the world....

  If a disfellowshiped person shows sincere repentance and desires to be reinstated, the committee may reinstate him after the lapse of what it considers a suitable length of time. When this is done the committee may wish to impose some restraints and put the individual on probation. The committee may now do this, since the person has been reinstated and is again a part of the congregation, the congregation now having resumed dealings with the individual.

  Hence, in answer to the question, a person may be put on probation without disfellowshiping or after reinstatement from being disfellowshiped, but it is completely illogical for the committee to try to establish probation over a person they cast out and do not even have dealings with. They only talk to him if he comes to them to discuss the matter of his reinstatement. To illustrate, a person in society may break a law. He is convicted and sent to jail. He has been removed from the community; he is not on probation when he is disfellowshiped from society and held in jail. But when he is released and returned to society he may be put on probation and have to live under certain restraints and report regularly to some officer. Or it may be that when he is found guilty instead of being sent to jail sentence may be suspended and he is put on probation, never being removed from society...

  Notice their rules states

  but it is completely illogical for the committee to try to establish probation over a person they cast out and do not even have dealings with

  Yet this is exactly what they are doing today. Rather than placing no authority or rulership over a disfellowshipped person because he is no longer part of the congregation, they prescribe to the dfd person what they want him to do in order to be reinstated. Among other things he must attend meetings and demonstrate to them (not God) his repentance in some physical form. Interestingly, they don't call this 'probation' but within their own definitions this is what it is. In their own words, they are now acting in an illogical manner.

  So in the past, if a person was seeking to be reinstated then he was at that point in time, accepted back as a member of the congregation and simply put on restrictions/restraints.

  I had wondered why a person who was disfellowshipped and rejected from the congregation was still allowed to attend and actually participate in congregational worship by joining in the prayers and songs of praises. In the past this was addressed by allowing him back into the fold but placed on restrictions but today there is no explanation as to why they have this double standard.
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  5

  JW's and the axe

  by why144000 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the current state of the jws reminds me of the old joke about the father passing on an axe to his son.

  he says son, this axe has been used in our family for 5 generations.

  we have changed the handle a few times and twice had to put on a new blade but it is still the same axe your great grandfather used.. .

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  Listener

  Very good. Hopefully that son just recognizes it as a bit of notalgia and now uses a chain saw.
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  9

  SHOCKING elder's talk: "..when we are baptized we abdicate all responsibility to think for ourselves.."

  by yadda yadda 2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i found this recorded elder's talk (presumably genuine) quite disturbing in how he states that in order to maintain unity, jw's have given up thinking for themselves and passed over their thinking ability to the governing body.. "when you're baptized, your thinking is not your own anymore...your thinking is done for you...we carry out to the letter everything the society tells us to do..." .

  his concluding statement "stop thinking for yourselves!".

  there's the usual reference to the korah and those who challenged moses, but "you in the congregation are safe as long as you don't speak out against the elders and jehovah's organisation...".

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  Listener

  It's not real Yadda, for one thing there is absolutely no background noise such as people coughing but if you listen to his other video's it becomes more obvious.
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  42

  Copy of my DA Letter

  by airborne in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is my first time posting here, although i have been a visitor to it for around a year.

  after doing a simple google search under "jehovah'switnesses" over a year ago, i found ttat.

  i was deeply unhappy with the congregation and decided to educate myself, and boy what an education i have gotten so far.

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  Listener

  Great letter Airborne, I particularly liked the PS. I also hope that you enjoy your newfound freedom.
• 
  8

  Could it be

  by bobld in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the aug. ad.

  campaign of their web site was a lead in or preparing the r&f to use modern media for preaching.

  an in the not to distance future dump the public watchtower and awake.save $$$$.

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  Listener

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N5t-Y-_cXk&list=UUCLreH8z5nWXuytHdH15FkQ

  JW Struggle talks about this towards the end of the above youtube but he is going to provide more information later. He states that the org has orgained internet witnessing.