Posts by Listener

81

Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

by Marvin Shilmer in

this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

Listener

Believe it. Prior to Pentecost, God used the Jews exclusively. Pouring his HS on non Jews was proof that God was using the nations. I do not want to get into a discussion about how God uses his Holy Spirit as taught by the WTS.). I have stated that JW proclaim that God uses (Holy Spirit) them EXCLUSIVELY . Should I say more?

In particular aspects they do claim that God uses his Holy Spirit exclusively and in particular they claim this in regards to the FDS as being the only ones whom Jesus appointed and only they are directed by HS in that role. What Jackson did explain was that the HS can operate in different ways, one of those being through the FDS to provide spiritual food and the other through providing help and comfort to members in the congregation. Nothing in his speech limited the workings of God's HS to these two areas. Jackson did not discuss other ways in which God's HS functions. Therefore there was no 'exlusivity' in his discussion whereas you suggest that there was.

t is not about what you believe. It is about what GJ said. He said that being God's spokesman ( in terms of being used by God) means not only being FDS but also OTHERS acting with HS IN THE CONGREGATION . You believe different, ok.

No it isn't about what I believe, I am only trying to work out what Jackson was alluding at. It is clear that he did not answer the question. With all the tricky talk that the org uses and the different understandings they have for different terms it is hard to get to the bottom of anything. I am trying to point out that the use of the term spokesperson can not be applied to everything else that Jackson was saying in response to the question, that is, it does not relate to his disccussion abut the Holy Spirit or the FDS. Those two terms are different and cannot be applied in the same way when talking about a spokesperson.

JW do not teach that there is a spokesman, sort of speak, as you have described. Anyway JW teachings are in print. GJ did not mean that JW teach that JW are the spokesman you describe. In terms of spokesman, he explained that other JW are used by God besides the FDS. That is what he meant. In terms of him being FDS, he did not deny it, but said that they were trying to fufill the role. That is it.

I agree with what you have written here. I find it interesting that he didn't claim that the Governing Body when trying to fulfill the role of the FDS had been approved and appointed by Jesus. Trying to fulfill a specific role and being appointed by a higher authority for that role is different.

Make no mistake about it, JW proclaim that they are the only people on earth that God uses to do his work. Of course, God uses his HS to accomplish his will as he chooses, but since God's HS is how God works and since JW are the only people on earth doing his work(JW teaching,) God ONLY gives his Holy Spirit to JW to do his work. It is all in print. I do not want to go off in a tangent about JW teaching.

Yes, I agree that this is their belief however Jackson did not clarify that point. Jackson made nothing clear other than that the Holy Spirit was operating in both the congregation and through the FDS and that the Governing Body was only trying to fulfill the role of the FDS.

81

Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

by Marvin Shilmer in

this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

Listener

Fishermango

<<JW proclaim that they are the only people God is using.>>

I agree with this statement but God's HS is not limited to JWs and I don't believe they make this claim as his HS works in many ways in fulfilling his will. If his HS does not operate outside of the JWs then he would not be able to see Armageddon come to fruition or even to aid people who are seeking him to find him. You are claiming that Jackson was saying that he meant the HS was only used exclusively within the organization and GJ made no such claim and neither to they claim this generally.

When GJ said that someone can act in harmony with God's spirit in the congregation in giving comfort and help he did not say anything about exclusivity, he was simply limiting his discussion to within the congregation in this discussion.

They have never claimed that God's HS operates both within his earthly organization and outside it. If you were to ask GJ that if someone was to comfort or help another person using the word of God, the bible, I doubt he would deny that God's HS was not in operation because by following the bible his HS is in operation.

Regarding the claim of being God's spokespeople

<<That was the question GJ was asked, posted in MS blog. GJ did not proclaim that he was, using that word. Although the lit may not use the exact word spokepersons, it does use the word "spiritual food." and God's Holy Spirit.>>

It matters greatly as to what words are being used and GJ does not deny or agree that they are God's spokesperson. Although he uses other words to express an opinion, they do not answer the original question.

Being God's spokesperson is very different to providing spiritual food. One is speaking for God, the other, providing spiritual food, is using the bible which was provided to us through God's HS by inspiring writers, to provide others with direction as to what God has told us. The bible was written by people whom God appointed as his spokespersons whereas providing the spiritual food is using those inspired words to teach us.

.

<<So, what can we conclude? When Jesus comes to destroy the wicked during the great tribulation, HE WILL FIND that the faithful slave has been loyally giving out spiritual food at the right time to the domestics. Jesus will then be happy to appoint that slave over all his belongings. Those who make up the faithful slave will get this appointment when they receive their reward in heaven and become rulers along with Christ. W13 7/15>>

<<The related Bible verses state that there WILL BE a FDS that Jesus rewards. Before the reward, the related FDS has the duty of providing spiritual food. Since God is the source of the spiritual food they give out, FDS must have proof from God that they are his appointees and not self anointed. >>

The related Bible verse does not state that Jesus will find that the FDS is doing what they were appointed to do. The verse states IF he finds them being faithful & discreet then he will appoint them over all his belongings. As you mention that is for Jesus to determine on his return and it is not a given therefore the claim by the GB that there will be an FDS that Jesus rewards is pre-emptying Jesus decision.

Matt 24:45-47 Who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?+ 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so!+ 47 Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.

You say I am going off on a tangent and it may appear that way to you but you made claims that you know what Jackson actually meant yet if your basis for making these opinions is not correct then your assumption as to what he was saying cannot be correct either.

81

Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

by Marvin Shilmer in

this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

Listener

Fisherman could you show me the last publication where they claim that they are God's spokespeople?

Also, how does one speak with God's holy spirit and why is this limited to those within the JW congregations?

As for Jesus making the decision as to whether the FDS has been faithful or not, the FDS has already made this decision for him as a given.

W13 7/15

<<So, what can we conclude? When Jesus comes to destroy the wicked during the great tribulation, HE WILL FIND that the faithful slave has been loyally giving out spiritual food at the right time to the domestics. Jesus will then be happy to appoint that slave over all his belongings. Those who make up the faithful slave will get this appointment when they receive their reward in heaven and become rulers along with Christ.>>

81

Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

by Marvin Shilmer in

this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

Listener

I wonder whether today they still claim that they are God's spokesperson? He did not answer that question. Although he said it would be presumptious of us to claim that we were the only ones he did not factually say that they were making this claim in the first place.

I could not find any reference to the claim that they are God's spokespersons in the online library. In these publications regarding God's spokesperson they refer only to biblical persons who were selected by God to speak on his behalf and as such they were 'inspired'. They may have dropped this idea many years ago without clarifying the change to the r&f because it serves to their benefit.

He qualified his answer by saying that they were only trying to fulfill a specific role being that of FDS, which is not the same as being God's spokesperson.

Even then when speaking about the FDS, he did not make the claim that the Governing Body was appointed by Jesus as the FDS, only that they were acting in the role. I wonder if this is because the GB members believe that as an individual he cannot make such a bold claim and it is only the FDS itself that can make the claim because it exists outside of each of the members.

So in answering the question it appears that he was constrained because of his position as a GB member and what we see written in the publications is different because it is the FDS speaking and not the GB members.

I'm probably not making much sense but when it comes to exploring the workings of the organization it is a very difficult task.

81

Do you believe Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body is the "faithful slave"?

by Marvin Shilmer in

this question is known to be posed by jws to other jws as an acid test of loyalty.

i'm not the first to notice what i'm about to point out and comment accordingly, but today i felt compelled to add a short article on my blog highlighting the new language that governing body member geoffrey jackson supplies as a response.

a person who honestly hesitates to respond with a robust "yes!

Listener

No further speculation should be required and it would be a presumptuous question for the elders to ask. It would be like asking whether you believed Geoffrey Jackson has been anointed and has a heavenly hope to become a King and Priest. Would loyalty to God's organization be dependant on answering yes to that question? I'm sure that some elders would know that it does not. or is it more truthful to say that only God can answer that regardless of what I or you or Geoffrey Jackson believe.

39

So I was enjoying a business trip in down town Bangkok...............Next thing BANG!!!

by cantleave in

jw
friends

so last night i was having a wonderful meal in a very nice restaurant when we heard what we thought was a loud clap of thunder.................. it was a bomb.

yards from my hotel.

thankfully i made a few decision that meant i wasn't in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Listener

We've visited Thailand 4 times in recent years, unfortunately we are always a little apprehensive. On one visit to Krabi the country was suddenly under Marshall law and subject to a nightime lockdown. We chose to cancel one of our trips due to the unrest.

It's a beautiful place and I agree about the people. What strikes me most is how happy they are even though they survive on such little income and how much they look after those even poorer than themselves.

Hubby and I think overall it is the best cuisine in the World and even the street market restaurants have tastier food than most five star restaurants.

Thailand is considered to be one of the most dangerous countries for Australian Tourists. We personally make it a practice not to walk the streets at night. Even traveling long distances in a mini bus is not recommended.

Bangkok is unpredictable and not the place I would want to be but I guess you cantleave at the moment ;)

Keep safe.

84

The Kingdom Halls are empty

by punkofnice in

my jw spies tell me that the kingdom halls are empty compared to how they used to be, since i left 5 years ago.

not saying they're empty because of me though.. is that what you are hearing?.

Listener

I've noticed on the JW org video's when they show meetings there are a lot of plenty seats. Since this is staged it would appear that this is the norm.

The latest Awake magazine talks about people leaving religions. It quotes Revelation saying that the waters around Babylon The Great would dry up, representing people turning away from religion and this was now happening.

18

best ex JW sites

by cobweb in

jw
friends

i used to visit this site about ten years ago.

i haven't come her in a long time.

i have just recently started talking to a family member who is leaving the jws and i wanted to know what are the best sites available these days for finding out all the topics of information - failed prophecy, 1975, rutherford's drinking, russells tombstone - you know all of that kind of stuff.. back in the day there used to be a site run by a norwegian i think called kent.

Listener

Watchtower Examination is a great YouTube channel where he discusses doctrines and the manipulation of the organization.

17

Using Governing Body Member Jackson Testimony To The Royal Commission, For A Defense Before A Judicial Committee Meeting

by Brokeback Watchtower in

i think that a person that is called before a judicial committee can use a recording of the trial and force the elder to view it because of jackson's statement to the commission and get off.

i think mr jackson has said enough about people who wish to leave the witnesses as not being harassed, hunted down, or spied upon and such to get the elder off your back and give them a "good witness".. also to be highlighted is the fact that jackson has stated under oath that the governing body is willing to reexamine doctrine and policy in order to conform to the law,.

i think many statements by gb jackson to the commission can be used by some one clever and thus escape the label of apostate and be unhindered to a large extent of speaking to others.. .

Listener

The transcript will be long as the session went for 3 hours. There will be a link to it on the the Australian Royal Commission's official website probably next week.

579

Won't get fooled again ...Moon Landing.

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

so i was fooled by the witnesses.

what can i learn from that?

not to accept things at face value but to seek out opinion and different view points.. hence my question " do you believe man landed on the moon?.

Listener

You asked a couple of good questions Rebel and I was going to ask you if you had been swayed from your opinion?

I have learnt a few new things from this thread and it encouraged me to go and do a little more research myself. I wanted to look at video's of the other moon landings but found the NASA website very difficult to use. I wondered also whether they had lost the footage of these other landings and whether they had been examined closely by more knowledgeable persons as to their authenticity.

My husband and I were both young when we watched the moon landing. We saw it as an incredible achievement and were in awe of the USA being able to accomplish this.

Many years later and neither of us believe that this first moon landing by man is real. To be specific, what we saw as children on Television was not real. They had so much to gain by faking it. Naturally that in itself doesn't make it fake. Whether men walked on the moon in 1969 or since then we wouldn't know either way.

We are not scientists and even if we were we would still need to have worked or have knowledge of this specialized field. I say this because it means that there are not a great deal of people who would be qualified enough to say whether the moon landing in 1969 was possible and whether the USA had the capability to do so at the time. This makes researching the issue extremely difficult because there are too many people, including scientists who have too much to say and it is nearly impossible to determine how credible their opinions are.

It is amazing how NASA managed to have the event televised around the World onto our Television with very little problems. For years after it was very difficult to transmit live from overseas, it wasn't a common event and rarely went smoothly.

It's an interesting topic Rebel. It doesn't surprise me at all that many people believe that what they saw on the TV was real.

It was enlightening to see the public reaction to the claim that Iraq was hiding a large amount of weapons of mass destruction. It wasn't worth the angst in trying to tell others that we were being lied to but to see them agreeing to send people over there to fight a war was shocking. Unfortunately the propaganda machine is much more powerful than a few doubters.