Posts by Listener

44

Publisher ID: leaked video clip 2 of 4

by Fay Dehr in

"if you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever.” ― george orwell, 1984 this video is leaked in interest of human dignity; you deserve to know who is keeping personal data and how they plan to expand their nets.

open to your comments... https://youtu.be/xz1arhu0fg0

[videos 1 to 4 leaked as own posts, with specific comments for each video].

Listener

As indicated in the video, they are working with the various Depts. at HQ to determine how best they can take advantage of this database.

Publishers information will be viewable by who knows how many people. They can't even stop videos from leaking these days.

Application forms can be lodged online through the publishers ID. These applications require very personal information, including their physical, mental and financial details. These forms, when completed by Elders also rate individuals on their 'spiritual' level.

Last year in Australia, the Branch Office sent out a request to Elders asking them to provide details of publishers that may be of use to them in providing professional assistance such as lawyers and accountants. The Privacy Act requires that if information about an individual is to be shared then the individual must be made aware of it and permission sought. The request the Branch gave to Elders did not direct them to do this.

These men are not to be trusted.

44

Publisher ID: leaked video clip 2 of 4

by Fay Dehr in

"if you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever.” ― george orwell, 1984 this video is leaked in interest of human dignity; you deserve to know who is keeping personal data and how they plan to expand their nets.

open to your comments... https://youtu.be/xz1arhu0fg0

[videos 1 to 4 leaked as own posts, with specific comments for each video].

Listener

They plan to have an ID for every publisher but not every publisher will be able to login to their own information.

Those that can log in to their publisher record will be able to change some of their info. such as their name, address and dob. There will be info. that they cannot change. What this info is will be interesting and also whether those with login access can even view it.

24

April 2018 Broadcast - normal weird stuff

by Listener in

we hear a story regarding the life of thomas and emma.

she states that "when thomas and i first learnt that i was pregnant, we were both really shocked" she doesn't explain why they were both really shocked but it seems an odd reaction unless they were using the safest contraception invented or hadn't been told about the bird and the bees.two experiences that touched the heart of gb sanderson were as follows -.

in russia a jw was jailed for 6 months, the jailers did everything to try to undermine his faith, which included violence.

Listener

"Kind of in shock about it" is very different than being "Really Shocked". Anyway, it was how it came across on the video as well, how it was expressed and without any explanation. That's okay, you see things differently than I do and (to me) Dozy's reasoning makes a lot of sense. But to be more specific, it makes a lot of sense when you understand the weird views that JWs can sometimes hold.

24

April 2018 Broadcast - normal weird stuff

by Listener in

we hear a story regarding the life of thomas and emma.

she states that "when thomas and i first learnt that i was pregnant, we were both really shocked" she doesn't explain why they were both really shocked but it seems an odd reaction unless they were using the safest contraception invented or hadn't been told about the bird and the bees.two experiences that touched the heart of gb sanderson were as follows -.

in russia a jw was jailed for 6 months, the jailers did everything to try to undermine his faith, which included violence.

Listener

Dreary Weather, I don't recall anyone making the statement on this forum (or in practice) without explaining why it came as a shock. The way it came across on the video was odd because of that.

The thoughts that Dozy expressed is what came to mind but as I haven't associated with a group of JWs for many years I wasn't sure.

I left the organization in the 80s and the change in attitudes amongst many JWs in deciding not to have children after that time took me by surprise and to some degree, disappointment. It also brought home just how cultish their way of thinking is.

17

The JW's 2 witness rule applied to Molestation is wrong AND HERE'S WHY

by wozza in

this is not the first time i've written about this, but with the royal commission happening here in australia, and having fought against the wts on this problem of molestation in the wts over a period of 15 years i feel a need to explain what i found which contradicts what the wts says and the way they handle cases within their society.. i am not going to give the history of my involvement but just state simply why no-one can believe what the wts says ,and we all know the scriptures they use to not handle cases of molestation properly , so here goes , it's not tricky or hard to understand i think, but just use the bible against them (hope this is used at the commission).. i,m using the revised berkely version in plain english here ,.

the context is law giving in the book of deuteronomy ch 22 : vs 22 - 27. vs 22 "when a man is surprised abed with a married woman,they shall both die ,the man who lay with the woman and the woman too; you shall wipe out the evil from israel.".

so this is easy to grasp ,man sleeps with married woman ,judged to die -they got caught.. next vs 23- 24 "when a man comes upon a girl in the city, who is a virgin betrothed to another , and he lies with her,24 you shall bring them both to the gate of the city and stone them to death, the girl because she did not cry out, although the city was all about her, and the man because he violated his neighbour's wife.

Listener

HQ put together a written response, signed by Jackson and included their reasoning on this. During the hearing Jackson said it was something he would like to ask Jesus about (or something to that effect).

Issue 3: Exp!anation of Deuteronomy 12:25-27

15. At TJ5970-15974, Counsel Assisting suggested that the requirement of at least two witnesses in relation to cases of sexual abuse had no proper Scriptural foundation, relying upon references to Deuteronomy 22:25-27 to support this proposition.

16. While these verses might appear to be an exception to the Scriptural requirement that there be at least two witnesses to establish a matter, that is not a correct reading of the passages.

17. Five chapters earlier, at Deuteronomy 17:6, the Mosaic Law clearly states without exception: "On the testimony of two witnesses or of three witnesses the one who is to die should be put to death. He must not be put to death on the testimony of one witness." And in Deuteronomy chapter 19, verse 15, it says: "No single witness may convict another for any error or any sin that he may commit. On the testimony of two witnesses or on the testimony of three witnesses the matter should be established. "

18. It is important to note that the two contrasting situations in verses 23 to 27 of Deuteronomy chapter 22 do not deal with proving whether the man is guilty in either situation. His guilt is assumed in both instances. In saying that he: "happened to meet her in the city and lay down with her" or he: "happened to meet the engaged girl in the.field and the man overpowered her and lay down with her ". in both instances, the man had already been proved guilty and worthy of death, this being determined by proper procedure earlier in the judges' inquiry. But the question at this point before the judges (having established that improper sexual relations had occurred between the man and the woman) was whether the engaged woman had been guilty of immorality or was a victim ofrape. This is a different issue, although related, to establishing the man 's guilt.
19. The elders had guidance in determining if any guilt should be charged to her. In the second instance (verse 27), the woman would not die, "for he happened to meet her in the field, and the engaged girl screamed, but there was no one to rescue her". Such a cry for help might be admitted by her assailant, which would confirm her claimed innocence. On the other hand, if the assailant denied that the woman had screamed for help, the judges would not have a basis for refusing her claim, since, in effect, it would be her word against his and there was no one nearby either to rescue her or to serve as a witness one way or the other as to her scream for help. Thus, the judges would not have a basis for taking any action against her because any claim contrary to her professed innocence could not be established by two or more witnesses. The woman, as claimed, would be judged innocent. In that case (verses 25 and 26), "the man who lay down with her is to die by himself. and you must do nothing to the girl. " This is because (verses 26 and 27): "{t}he girl has not committed a sin deserving of death. This case is the same as when a man attacks his f ellow man and murders him. For he happened to meet her in the field, and the engaged girl screamed, but there was no one to rescue her. "

20. So it is not as though the woman at this point in the inquiry is seeking to prove the man's guilt and finds herself as the only witness against him. However, it is of interest that the raping of a woman is said to be "the same as when a man attacks his fellow man and murders him." (Deuteronomy 22:26) Thus, the crime of rape is made parallel to murder, equated not only as to reprehensibility but also evidently as to being established by the same Scriptural rules of evidence, which included having the testimony of two witnesses (Numbers 35:30).

21. Understandably, there is concern in child abuse situations because there is seldom an additional eyewitness to such a crime. Even in those circumstances, the Christian congregation does not ignore the accusation. I refer the Royal Commission to the testimony of Mr Rodney Spinks of the Service Department in which he set out the further protective steps which are taken following an allegation. In addition, in those jurisdictions with mandatory reporting, elders would be required to report accusations regardless of the number of eyewitnesses.

15

Which post has he just read, and what's he thinking?

by Fay Dehr in

.

Listener

Just wait 'til I find out which Brother booked me into a Hotel without a pillow menu. I'll have him spanxed.

24

April 2018 Broadcast - normal weird stuff

by Listener in

we hear a story regarding the life of thomas and emma.

she states that "when thomas and i first learnt that i was pregnant, we were both really shocked" she doesn't explain why they were both really shocked but it seems an odd reaction unless they were using the safest contraception invented or hadn't been told about the bird and the bees.two experiences that touched the heart of gb sanderson were as follows -.

in russia a jw was jailed for 6 months, the jailers did everything to try to undermine his faith, which included violence.

Listener

We hear a story regarding the life of Thomas and Emma. She states that "when Thomas and I first learnt that I was pregnant, we were both really shocked" She doesn't explain why they were both really shocked but it seems an odd reaction unless they were using the safest contraception invented or hadn't been told about the bird and the bees.

Two experiences that touched the heart of GB Sanderson were as follows -

In Russia a JW was jailed for 6 months, the jailers did everything to try to undermine his faith, which included violence. During a routine investigation the interrogator said he would tell him what his organization was doing and he could determine himself whether it was God's organization or not. He proceeded to tell him how many had just attended two, eight day assemblies in New York. He strewed photos before him and in one of them the JW saw happy delegates, another showed Bro. Knorr giving a talk and another showed the baptism. Well the JW felt that he had attended the convention without ever having to leave the prison. It was just what he needed to endure further and God had blessed him in a special way.

The odd thing about this is why would the inerrogator think that showing him these photos would some how sway him against his Bro's.?

The next experience was also in Russia, in 1960. A large publicized trial of JWs was taking place and as evidence the prosecution showed a letter written by Bro. Knorr. This letter had been intercepted by the KGB before it had reached the Russian JWs. It was read, from start to end, aloud and the JWs in the Courtroom (he actually said Hall) felt it was a wonderful gift from Jehovah. The JWs felt like they had attended a convention.

Again, as with the first experience, what else was being said so that a letter like this would be used as evidence against the Russian JWs?

It's strange that he would bring up experiences from so long ago, he wasn't even born then. But if he's planting seeds then he's suggesting that there are other ways of feeling you've attended a convention without physically doing so.

The usual fluffy song was a romantic love song, it showed a couple growing older together through the years and included a product placement advertisement of Coca Cola. It's odd that they would use a product that is so iconically recognized.

32

Watchtower Inc. 100 Henry Street Links to MANY other Suspect Companies

by objectivetruth in

there have been a few posts in the past about watchtower inc. at 100 henry street, but i do not see the answer i'm hoping for.. can anyone confirm or provide details linking watchtower inc. to the wbts?

they are across the street, and one can easily assume that they are connected, but i don't see any definite links.. the closest i have come is this link: http://www.insideview.com/directory/watchtower-inc which lists watchtower.org as the website.

this could have been posted like this in error however.. according to 2014 sec filings watchtower inc. has a ceo named sholom drizin ( a man worth possibly 2 billion.).

Listener

The OT was about Watchtower Inc. not a website named watchtower.org. Do you see some relation between the two?

29

R & B Soul on JW.org

by silentbuddha in

i remember getting my ass beat .

in 1987 / 1988 for listening to atlantic star.

they had a song called always.. my mother sat me down anmd told me listening to music like that would just rile up my emotions and make me look for a girl to fornicate with.. like at the age of 10 i was going to take it to that level.. my mother later banned r and b from our home.... i find it all hilarious now, but a friend of mine actually sent me a link to the jw broadcast and said i had to watch this.. i told him there was no way, but he said just start at the 50:40 mark.. i do not believe that this is what the org is doing now???.

Listener

They are spending dedicated donations on, of all things, love songs. Crikey.

Here's the lyrics -

Truly in Love

There is a gift that comes from above,
A lovely gift called being in love.
When two hearts begin to beat as one,
Then a wonderful time has begun.

It’s simple, so easy.
And it’s something we know.
With a threefold cord,
Love will grow.
With Jehovah to guide us in all that we do,
How I love to be truly in love
With someone like you,
Someone like you.

Trials will come our way,
But our love will grow stronger each day.
We will build a bond that no one can break.
We will build a love that no one will take.
No, no, no one, no.

It’s simple, so easy.
And it’s something we know.
With a threefold cord,
Love will grow.
With Jehovah to guide us in all that we do,
How I love to be truly in love
With someone like you,
Someone like you.

Nothing can destroy our love.
This precious gift is from our God up above.
Exclusive devotion
—‘love’s as strong as death.’
You are “bone of my bones”;
you are “flesh of my flesh,”
Such an excellent woman in all that you do.
I will spend all my life loving you.

I want you to know how I feel
’Cause my love for you is so very real.
I bless the day you came into my life.
I bless the day I made you my wife.
Yes I do.

It’s simple, so easy.
And it’s something we know.
With a threefold cord,
Love will grow.
With Jehovah to guide us in all that we do,
How I love to be truly in love
With someone like you,
Someone like you.

How I love to be truly in love
With someone like you.

30

Personal Data Permission (Spain)

by paradiseseeker in

jw
friends

i had the meeting yesterday and there it was announced that there will be a new law passed in spain regarding personal data.

that law makes it compulsory for the wt spanish branch to collect a signed permission from the publishers to keep and utilize personal data.

no choice was given to us, we were just told to make sure we hand in our signed permissions before may 18th.

Listener

This sounds like it might be a good thing for JWs wanting to leave. It could mean that all the individual needs to do is to withdraw their permission for holding private information. The Elders will not be able to access phone numbers or home addresses. The might know them already but using them in official JW business might be illegal.

I wonder if it could also mean that they cannot publicly announce you as being dfd or da'd once you've withdrawn your permission for holding personal info.