here is the final email i received from ray prior to his death.. [if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-us</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="--" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!
[endif] .
dear daniel,.
It was probably the rather cavalier, insensitive spirit so often manifest in Governing Body discussions that most disturbed me.
This is something that we don't get to see but certainly when you compare the words you read in the books and mags and the difference in writing it becomes obvious.
Ray Franz is a beautiful writer and able to impart a very loving feeling and patience in his words and certainly non-condeming.
Thanks for sharing brother Dan
there is a lot of information available about questions to ask jws.
it's a good thing to make them think a little more instead of being spoon fed all the time.. one question that could be posed is - where did the the 'new light' come from?
(answer) so where did the 'old light' come from?.
There is a lot of information available about questions to ask JWs. It's a good thing to make them think a little more instead of being spoon fed all the time.
One question that could be posed is - Where did the the 'new light' come from? (answer) So where did the 'old light' come from?
What are your suggestions?
according to this, jesus is not just the mediator of the 144,000 -- he's the mediator of mankind!!
and apparently "dear jesus" prayers are okay!
the watch tower says i can say, "dear jesus, you are my mediator as you are for all mankind..." "the bible clearly says that jesus christ is mankind's redeemer, so he is mankind's mediator.
So Debator if Jesus is only the mediator of the chosen ones then why is it acceptable for all of us to use Jesus as our mediator in prayer?
okay, based on my reading, you're clearly better off being one of the 144,000. first, you get to reside in heaven, while everyone else is consigned to living on earth.
second, a spirit (in wts eschatology) is much better than being a flesh and bone human.
they can fly, read in a darkened room and they get to be with god for eternity.. but what of everyone else?
Reading whole chapters from the bible itself is not something I can recall the org encouraging. Even their daily tests were just one paragraph with a whole lot of writing from the org.
It would be interesting to see how many different interpretations they alone give any one paragraph.
okay, based on my reading, you're clearly better off being one of the 144,000. first, you get to reside in heaven, while everyone else is consigned to living on earth.
second, a spirit (in wts eschatology) is much better than being a flesh and bone human.
they can fly, read in a darkened room and they get to be with god for eternity.. but what of everyone else?
Serien it is very clear in the W quote that they are talking about both the ones resurrected to heaven and also those resurrected on earth. It says
So for dead ones with spiritual, heavenly hopes and for dead ones with earthly Paradisaic hopes the rule enunciated by Jesus Christ stands unaltered: “In the resurrection neither do men marry nor are women given in marriage, but are as angels in heaven
I think you may have got confused when it says 'but are as angels in heaven'. All that means is that it is a long accepted belief that the angels in heaven are neither female or male They are saying that those resurrected will be the same (as angels in being neither female or male) in both cases of the heavenly and earthly resurrection.
according to this, jesus is not just the mediator of the 144,000 -- he's the mediator of mankind!!
and apparently "dear jesus" prayers are okay!
the watch tower says i can say, "dear jesus, you are my mediator as you are for all mankind..." "the bible clearly says that jesus christ is mankind's redeemer, so he is mankind's mediator.
Why Grandma Jones, I just brought this topic up again the other day?
okay, based on my reading, you're clearly better off being one of the 144,000. first, you get to reside in heaven, while everyone else is consigned to living on earth.
second, a spirit (in wts eschatology) is much better than being a flesh and bone human.
they can fly, read in a darkened room and they get to be with god for eternity.. but what of everyone else?
Danabug said
Where's that in the Bible? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just want to see that for myself.
Watchtower 61 11/15 states
So for dead ones with spiritual, heavenly hopes and for dead ones with earthly Paradisaic hopes the rule enunciated by Jesus Christ stands unaltered: “In the resurrection neither do men marry nor are women given in marriage, but are as angels in heaven.” (Matt. 22:30) At the flood of Noah’s day angels were punished for entering into marriage, which in that instance was with the daughters of men because they were so lovely-looking. (Gen. 6:1-4) In the resurrection of the “other sheep” on earth, no former married person will have occasion to envy another former married person, as would be the case if this latter one got back his former marriage mate who had remained single, whereas the envious marriage mate does not get back his former partner because this partner remarried and survived Armageddon with his new marriage mate. What the resurrection promises men is, not remarriage, but reliving, and this under God’s kingdom by Christ. Is that not something satisfying? Has anyone a right to demand more through Christ’s sacrifice? Christ died for you, not to marry, but to live! Let us not be swayed or overcome by sentimentalism or emotionalism
This was the understanding but a later watchtower magazine states that they are only taking an educated guess on this matter.
okay, based on my reading, you're clearly better off being one of the 144,000. first, you get to reside in heaven, while everyone else is consigned to living on earth.
second, a spirit (in wts eschatology) is much better than being a flesh and bone human.
they can fly, read in a darkened room and they get to be with god for eternity.. but what of everyone else?
Ken's and barbies, very funny.
I do wonder how accurate their interpretation of this is as I have seen them use the same scripture to say that it is referring to the annointed who go to heaven.
But I do find it doesn't make a lot of sense in God's purpose for mankind. If Adam and Eve were to fill the earth and this is what we to occur on the seventh day (and it being a rest day from creation) then it doesn't follow that men and women would return to the earth on that seventh day as having no sexual identity and an inability to procreate.
yes, that is right, they fired the faithful slave class.
who makes up the f&ds class?
why the anointed do, of course.
With all this mumbo jumbo and use of words what the GB has done is identify two groups, one within the other. So now we have a special group identified within the FDS.
It is quite annoying that they continually refer to 'food provided by the FDS' whereas that is not correct as it is only provided by this special group. A huge percentage of the FDS have nothing to do with providing information.
Quote from above - Should not individual members of the anointed and the “other sheep” trust the slave appointed over them?
The annointed individuals form the FDS so how can the FDS be appointed above the individual? I agree that there is a requirement that they work in unity and therefore are in obediance to the collective group and this allows for the co-hesian that they want but they are doing a very good job of seperating the GB from the FDS and making it a different group.
okay, based on my reading, you're clearly better off being one of the 144,000. first, you get to reside in heaven, while everyone else is consigned to living on earth.
second, a spirit (in wts eschatology) is much better than being a flesh and bone human.
they can fly, read in a darkened room and they get to be with god for eternity.. but what of everyone else?
I can relate to your thoughts Cold Street. There were supernatural miracles that occurred in bible times and with God nothing is impossible. There are many secrets that are to be learnt but they are not for now as the priority is to have the earthly kingdom properly restored.
The org says that the resurrected ones to earth will be neither female nor male (and we are not to speculate the good and bad of this). But it means their purpose on earth will be different.
We know that God has always continued to work and create and we are made in his image. He also always has a purpose for his creations. We know Adam was told to name the animals then fill the earth, what his plans were after that are not known. This means there will always be something for us to do. When you consider the vast universe around us the possibilities are endless.
