Posts by Listener

4

8 Is there a secret formula for moving ahead with the organization?

by fadinfast in

14 years ago

[the last paragraph is of interest to all] but there is a basic thing we must have.. obediencethebasicfactor.

wt 6/1 1967 p337.

] often the very best and most beneficial studying you do is that done when you read a new watchtower or awake!

14 years ago

Listener 14 years ago

Wow so the forumla by which the organization rests and operates is that Obedience equals Moving Ahead by the power of God's holy spirit. Did he think about the instruction being handed out by the org needs to be right and 100% in harmony of God's words? To use his illustion - the visible universe must be operating within it's normal constraints before E=MC2 can be relied upon.

He got his obedience and many, many JWs just read and enjoy what they are reading rather than studying, understanding and meditating on the bible.

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317

Inviting djeggnog to discuss the blood doctrine

by jgnat in

14 years ago

djeggnog invited me to start a new thread about the blood doctrine, which i am happy to do here.

his objection was my statement,.

"i've seen the blood video, a deceiving mix of scripture, fearmongering and pseudoscience, with plenty of lab coats in view.

14 years ago

Listener 14 years ago

DG - polyheme, which is not a blood fraction, but a blood product, and as such is unacceptable for use by Jehovah's Witnesses, despite what some Jehovah's Witnesses may have been willing to conscientiously accept as a blood substitute, but I would rather you stay on topic. I feel we have explored all of the arguments regarding blood fractions, so I think I'm going to be withdrawing from this thread now (unless someone should say something in it to compel me to post a response).

Now we have a new category, not whole blood, not a component, not a fraction but a blood product. Since allowing fractions as a conscience matter it muddies the law greatly. What does this result in? For a start, even you have become judgemental against your fellow JWs as highlighted above.

It's no wonder you want to get out of the debate.

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23

'When we have such a large and loving organization, why should we have fellowship with the world?'

by Joliette in

14 years ago

jah gave us such a loving organization, full of brothers and sisters, full of unity no matter the race, culture, gender or background, the loving faithful and discreet slave with jesus christ as its mediator, the channel, between jesus and us, why should we seek assoication with the world???.

can anyone answer this question....why should we??

is there any reason for assoication with the world?.

14 years ago

Listener 14 years ago

The only reason to associate with the world is to have something to eat, shelter, medical care and education and possibly for a bit of entertainment.

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31

"Trust the Faithful and Discreet Slave" Transcript [2010/2011 Kingdom Ministry School]

by pirata in

14 years ago

transcript for the talk "trust the faithful and discreet slave" talk given at the kingdom ministry schools:.

trust the faithful and discreet slave.

have we ever had to meet up with somebody with whom we've not seen before?

12 years ago

Listener 14 years ago

Who really is the F&DS?

The annointed? No, they couldn't be appointed over themselves in 1919 as all members were annointed at that time.

The GB? They didn't exist in 1919.

The WTB&TS? The F&DS were appointed over all his belongings and this corporation owns everything but as an administration they do not own the members.

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317

Inviting djeggnog to discuss the blood doctrine

by jgnat in

14 years ago

djeggnog invited me to start a new thread about the blood doctrine, which i am happy to do here.

his objection was my statement,.

"i've seen the blood video, a deceiving mix of scripture, fearmongering and pseudoscience, with plenty of lab coats in view.

14 years ago

Listener 14 years ago

DJ it seems that you are in disagreement with the GB as this is the situation

GB say Fractions are not nutrients and therefore not food and you say Fractions are nutrients but not food. You come to the same conclusion but nutrients are either food or not food. But back to an earlier question, how are you able to determine that fractions are not food and components to be food?

TD has preented a good argument to explain how blood is not food when injected but rather tissue transplant.

Does it really just come down to the fact that the GB consider blood to be equivelant to food when injected that they disallow it? This is without considering why the law was there, how it applied, under what circumstances and the purpose of the law which is what Cofty (and others) have presented.

You make some interesting observations DGP and it is not hypothetical. We know there was a new blood card printed and released for a very short time which allowed for the storage of ones own blood to be used in a transfusion then quickly recalled. We don't know why this happened and it has been speculated that one of the members did such a procedure. This card demonstrated that the GB were not all in agreement. Would it really be wrong for any JW to accept this procedure knowing that some men in their little group of lawmakers were for it? What really gets me though is how it even comes about that such a serious life and death situation is decided on a majority, surely it should be a conscience matter when all are not in agreement.

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317

Inviting djeggnog to discuss the blood doctrine

by jgnat in

14 years ago

djeggnog invited me to start a new thread about the blood doctrine, which i am happy to do here.

his objection was my statement,.

"i've seen the blood video, a deceiving mix of scripture, fearmongering and pseudoscience, with plenty of lab coats in view.

14 years ago

Listener 14 years ago

If the JWs are sincere about abstaining from blood then why do they readily accept shop bought meat without continually investigating the methods used for removing blood? The Jews have developed a method of slaughtering and treating meat to remove as much blood as possible.

According to Wikileaks -

As much blood as possible must be removed ( Leviticus 17:10 ) through the kashering process; this is usually done through soaking and salting the meat, but organs rich in blood (the liver) are grilled over an open flame

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317

Inviting djeggnog to discuss the blood doctrine

by jgnat in

14 years ago

djeggnog invited me to start a new thread about the blood doctrine, which i am happy to do here.

his objection was my statement,.

"i've seen the blood video, a deceiving mix of scripture, fearmongering and pseudoscience, with plenty of lab coats in view.

14 years ago

Listener 14 years ago

Regardless of the above contradiction (which is also a demonstration of how DJ does not know what he is talking about) I wonder how the GB are able to determine which fractions are nutrients/food or not. Just because a fraction may be used for another purpose, such as building up antibodies that in no way disqualifies the fraction from also being a nutrient.

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317

Inviting djeggnog to discuss the blood doctrine

by jgnat in

14 years ago

djeggnog invited me to start a new thread about the blood doctrine, which i am happy to do here.

his objection was my statement,.

"i've seen the blood video, a deceiving mix of scripture, fearmongering and pseudoscience, with plenty of lab coats in view.

14 years ago

Listener 14 years ago

"DG Post 288 said

Likewise, it is not impermissible for Jehovah's Witnesses to use such products if made from any of the four components of blood provided (1) the product of interest should be a "nutrient" derived from one of these blood components and (2) they should choose to do so, for such blood fractions are no longer blood, so that would not be reusing it in their own bodies, and they may conscientiously choose to accept or reject such nutrients (fractions) in connection with the medical treatment they receive.

DG Post 291 said

Are we to consider the injection of serums such as diphtheria toxin antitoxin and blood fractions such as gamma globulin into the blood stream, for the purpose of building up resistance to disease by means of antibodies, the same as the drinking of blood or the taking of blood or blood plasma by means of transfusion?

No, it does not seem necessary that we put the two in the same category, although we have done so in times past. Each time the prohibition of blood is mentioned in the Scriptures it is in connection with taking it as food, and so it is as a nutrient that we are concerned with in its being forbidden....

The injection of antibodies into the blood in a vehicle of blood serum or the use of blood fractions to create such antibodies is not the same as taking blood, either by mouth or by transfusion, as a nutrient to build up the body’s vital forces.

While God did not intend for man to contaminate his blood stream by vaccines, serums or blood fractions,

doing so does not seem to be included in God’s expressed will forbidding blood as food. It would therefore be a matter of individual judgment whether one accepted such types of medication or not."

DJ is a blood fraction food/nutrient or not? In your first post that I quoted you indicate that it is?

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18

ex-pioneer/ex-elder reveals his disappointment/disbelief in wt doctrine to elder/friend?

by TheLoveDoctor in

14 years ago

yesterday i spoke with an elder i worked closely with just up to a year and a half ago for 3.75hrs about doctrine, gb, teachings that jehovah/jesus/anointed/holy spirit aren't working to well and have been giving us mixed signals (evidently?

) ha ha evidently get it!!!

ge apparently everyone is getting brighter as the day draws near.. since ive been inactive 3 months coming from the so called top 2.5 years ago pioneering and eldering and never missing meetings, i don't believe i could fade and live a lie.

14 years ago

Listener 14 years ago

May we all improve the world by first impoveing ourselves and spreading it to others, be love and spread it.

If you stick with this angle I think you will do much more for the brothers than discussing doctrine. It is possibly the lack of it (or misdirection) that is at the root of the Society's problems. If they let true Godly love guide, as expressed through his holy spirit and his biblical message, everything else will fall into place, including doctrinal teachings. This would include coming to terms with the fact that they are only men and it is not right that they expect 100% agreement from the R&F in their 'current' teaching. I think that it was Ray Franz that said unity does not mean uniform.

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18

ex-pioneer/ex-elder reveals his disappointment/disbelief in wt doctrine to elder/friend?

by TheLoveDoctor in

14 years ago

yesterday i spoke with an elder i worked closely with just up to a year and a half ago for 3.75hrs about doctrine, gb, teachings that jehovah/jesus/anointed/holy spirit aren't working to well and have been giving us mixed signals (evidently?

) ha ha evidently get it!!!

ge apparently everyone is getting brighter as the day draws near.. since ive been inactive 3 months coming from the so called top 2.5 years ago pioneering and eldering and never missing meetings, i don't believe i could fade and live a lie.

14 years ago

Listener 14 years ago

You could always refuse to go to a JC meeting and express your disappointment if they feel that necessary. You could explain how you find this arrangement in itself not appropriate. (If you feel that way of course). By taking to your friend for such a length of time I think what you are doing is much more beneficial as you are able to discuss things without any agenda and in a much more friendly and open manner.

You didn't mention what you discussed and if he felt the same way about anything.

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