Posts by Listener

23

Who was the poster who predicted radical Watchtower change years ago?

by slimboyfat in

who was the poster, about 8 years ago, who came on the forum and claimed he had inside information that the gb were planning radical changes.

he said that in ten years time jws would be unrecognisable.

many were skeptical.

Listener

Thanks Careful, that was the post that I thought of when Slimboyfat asked the question, at least the one that purported to be fairly factual information, with inside information rather than predicitons.

Thanks Slimboyfat for raising the question in the first place. I wasn't around 8 years ago and you may well have a different post in mind. There has been a lot of speculation mentioned over the years and guesses as to what they might or might not do and occasionally we get posters who really do have inside information.

There is a lot of information in that post of Juan Viejo2's and their is enough accurate information there to assume that most of it is accurate even though they haven't implemented all the changes mentioned.

It mentions that the GB could be increased to 12, this makes a lot of sense but hasn't been done, not even one additional member has been appointed. It is possible that they are stuck with the problem of having no suitable anointed men and don't know how to overcome the problem of appointing non anointed men. Their 2013 change, when they announced that only the GB are the FDS made this even more difficult because of the reward of being given all Christ's belongings.

If they were intending to increase to 12 and they haven't it may indicate serious problems within both the GB and their helpers.

The post identified the many cutbacks and even some of the thinking behind who they chose to get rid of. The focus of an increase in Legal, Real Estate and Training makes sense when we see what has been happening. They have sent out requests to congregations to determine if their may be Legal Professionals available to them. We have seen the creation of their very own Real Estate website and an increase in the purchases of translation offices/luxury homes, increased sales of Kingdom & Assembly Halls and the creation of the LDC as detailed in this post -

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/289353/ldc-semininar

Unfortunately, I can't see any indication from Juan's post to suggest why these changes were being made or what has prompted them.

Reading back on the LDC meeting is very interesting. They mentioned this at the meeting

YES! The organization is growing at a phenomenal rate
At an unprecedented rate – people are simplifying their lives – ridding themselves of their belongings to come and serve Jeh more fully – the room is filled with professionals from all over the country and world – that have chosen to completely unplug from their livelihoods – leave everything and everyone to come work on this historic project
GB says simplify – earn less money but at the same time they need millions more to do what we need to do – a contradiction? NO – Jehovah makes it happen. – consider:
We are the largest printing house in the world - all unskilled workers
We are the largest translation organization in the world – 700 lang- unskilled
We are one of the largest property development corporations in the world – we own over 80,000 properties – this is all managed by volunteers
Can you see it? The pillar of fire?
We are asked to adjust our thinking and feelings – Jehovah is in control. When we are told “go this way” we say “ I will go even if I don’t understand why right now”

Here is the task of the LDC:
Build 5 times as many Kingdom halls with 1/10 the work force – oh, and 1 more thing – do it for no money!

Jehovah likes impossible odds – this way its clear that He is with his people.

This is an admittance that their vision is an impossibility, at least from an earthly viewpoint.

Then there was this

Remember in 1990 how you felt when the branch said we are no longer going to ask for money for the magazines? We wondered how will this work? It costs a lot of money to produce the literature – how can we just hope people will donate?
Well, 24 years later – we are fine – in fact Jehovah has moved people to donate more than enough to keep the work going and growing! Nothing short of a miracle!

28

Has Robert Ciranko replaced Don Adams as president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania ?

by EdenOne in

robert ciranko has been a "helper" of the governing body in the writing department.. don adams (born 1925, presumably 91 years old now) has been president of the wtbts since 2000. .

however, in recent official posts (april 2016), robert ciranko is identified as "president of the watch tower".

does anybody know what happened and if this is an official change?.

Listener

There's more information on Reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/4kfudh/robert_ciranko_was_silently_elected_as_a_new/

67

EdenOne, Mrs. Eden & Son: DISASSOCIATED!

by EdenOne in

great news!.

we are free!.

as of the 9th of june, me and my dear wife mrs. eden handed over our letters of disassociation at bethel in portugal, thus making official our departure from the jehovah's witnesses.

Listener

7 pages, wow EdenOne. Given your discussions here I know it would have been of a very high caliber. In many ways it is a fine result. They are not able to defend their own position but it shows that there strategy is one of retreat. There is a serious weakness on their part.

They consider themselves to be a peaceful people in a physical sense only, not in a spiritual sense but when it comes to holding to their so called bible principles and ideals, they have no spirit to stand and fight. So much for the 'hailstones' of hard truths and the hard hitting messages that they purport to declare. They are like the big bully who's just a little weak pussy when properly challenged.

Instead their only weapon is to demand obedience which includes not questioning their bible understandings.

W91 12/1 From 1922 onward, hard-hitting Bible truths were published and publicly circulated, exposing Babylonish false religion
W81 8/1 have been pelting them with hard-hitting Scriptural truths, exposing them for what they really are
W74 12/15 the message of the Kingdom and its establishment has been declared like a mighty trumpet blast in the direction of the “four winds”
W68 6/15 It is true that those who respond do not engage in any literal warfare with fleshly, man-made weapons. They do, however, equip themselves with the “suit of armor” and the weapons that God has provided
W2012 8/15 We will not fight them with material weapons on a literal battlefield. Yet, we can be sure that Jehovah will reward with victory all faithful ones who wage spiritual warfare in his name
W2010 2/15 A soldier can wield his weapons effectively in warfare only if he has practiced and has learned to use them well. It is the same with the use of “the sword of the spirit” in our spiritual warfare. “Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God,” wrote Paul, “a workman with nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of the truth aright.”—2 Tim. 2:15.

67

EdenOne, Mrs. Eden & Son: DISASSOCIATED!

by EdenOne in

great news!.

we are free!.

as of the 9th of june, me and my dear wife mrs. eden handed over our letters of disassociation at bethel in portugal, thus making official our departure from the jehovah's witnesses.

Listener

It's wonderful that you've been able to make it out together.

How old was your son when he got baptised?

I'd love to know more about this letter stating attendance was a conscience matter but I'll just be patient and am looking forward to more details.

33

Jehovah's Witnesses new world HQ nearly complete. From The Chronicle.

by ToesUp in

warwick article.

Listener

It is so ugly, it looks sterile. It looks at odds with its location. The grey colour is horrid, or is it supposed to be silver?

40

Now this is weird, ever heard of the "Mandela Effect" ??? What if... ?

by Greybeard in

jw
friends

now this is weird, ever heard of the "mandela effect" ???

i know how crazy it sounds but i got to tell you, this article about the governing body finally admitting the "faithful slave" was not divinely appointed by jesus in 1919 was epic to me.

like a mandela effect feeling.

Listener

With that change they say there was never a FDS until 1919 is extraordinary, not even the disciples were FDSs.

They are also basically calling all JWs back then who said Russell was the FDS, liars, even Rutherford stated he was.

23

So are the GB now saying that they are NOT the "faithful and discreet slave"?

by stuckinarut2 in

so can someone clarify this please?.

the claim has been made that the gb is the faithful and discreet slave.

especially was this highlighted during the agm (when the silver bible was released).. but are they now saying that this "appointment" isn't happening until the "great tribulation"?.

Listener

BlackSwan of Memphis, you may well be onto something there. They have introduced the idea in 2007.

What, then, can we deduce from the fact that one of the 24 elders identifies the great crowd to John? It seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today. Why is that important? Because the correct identity of the great crowd was revealed to God’s anointed servants on earth in 1935. If one of the 24 elders was used to convey that important truth, he would have had to be resurrected to heaven by 1935 at the latest. That would indicate that the first resurrection began sometime between 1914 and 1935. – Watchtower of January, 2007, p. 28 paragraphs 11-12

23

So are the GB now saying that they are NOT the "faithful and discreet slave"?

by stuckinarut2 in

so can someone clarify this please?.

the claim has been made that the gb is the faithful and discreet slave.

especially was this highlighted during the agm (when the silver bible was released).. but are they now saying that this "appointment" isn't happening until the "great tribulation"?.

Listener

The July 2013 Watchtower states that they don't get the appointment until they are in heaven, because they are being appointed over heavenly and earthly interests.

Jesus will then be happy to appoint that slave over all his belongings. Those who make up the faithful slave will get this appointment when they receive their reward in heaven and become rulers along with Christ.

2

What are 'all his belongings'

by why144000 in

if the slave is given control over the 'domestics' in 1919 and this includes anointed and great crowd what is left for the master to give the slave?

all the worldly people will be destroyed so what is left?.

matthew 24: 45who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?+ 46 happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so!+ 47 truly i say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.48 “but if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘my master is delaying,’+ 49 and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know,+ 51 and he will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his place with the hypocrites.

Listener

That is a good question Why144000 because they still have not clearly defined it since they made their changes regarding the FDS in 2013.

This was the old teachings regarding the belongings

w 2004 3/1

What are the belongings over which the newly crowned Master appointed his faithful slave? All the spiritual things that belong to Him here on earth. For example, two decades after Christ’s enthronement in 1914, “a great crowd” of “other sheep” was identified. (Revelation 7:9; John 10:16

W 2007 4/1

In addition to providing nourishing spiritual food “at the proper time,” “the faithful steward” would be appointed over the entire body of Christ’s attendants and assigned to manage all of Christ’s interests on earth, “all his belongings.” What would this entail?
8 The slave’s responsibilities include the supervision of the material facilities used by Christ’s followers to carry out their Christian activities, such as the world headquarters and branch offices of Jehovah’s Witnesses, as well as their places of worship—Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls—throughout the world. More important, the slave also oversees spiritually upbuilding programs of Bible study at weekly meetings and periodic assemblies and conventions. At these gatherings, information on the fulfillment of Bible prophecies is dispensed, and timely direction on how to apply Bible principles in daily life is given.
9 The steward’s responsibilities also include the supervision of the all-important work of preaching “this good news of the kingdom” and making “disciples of people of all the nations.” This involves teaching people to observe all the things that Christ, the Head of the congregation, commands to be done during this time of the end. (Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20; Revelation 12:17) The preaching and teaching work has produced “a great crowd” of loyal companions of the anointed remnant. These “desirable things of all the nations” are undoubtedly to be counted among the precious “belongings” of Christ administered by the faithful slave.—Revelation 7:9; Haggai 2:7.

In the above article they are basically saying that it includes all the material possessions that they use in the preaching work and also the other sheep, who also belong to them as possessions.

They then stated in 2013 that his belongings now include the Messianic Kingdom

What do “all [Jesus’] belongings” include? Jesus did not qualify the word “all,” as if to limit his belongings to earthly things. In fact, Jesus has vast heavenly authority. “Allauthority has been given me in heaven and on the earth,” he said. (Matt. 28:18; Eph. 1:20-23) His belongings now include the Messianic Kingdom, which has belonged to him since 1914 and which he will share with his anointed followers.—Rev. 11:15.

It no longer includes the other sheep because they are the domestics.

Notice the statement that they have made - 'His belongings now include the Messianic Kingdom. Which raises even more questions.
If his belongings now include the Messianic Kingdom then what else does it include?
What does it mean to own the Messianic Kingdom?
If the FDS can loose out on it's reward of the Messianic Kingdom because they have been found to be a wicked slave and that slave has only existed since 1914, then what of all the other anointed prior to that time, they still get their reward without the requirements of having been appointed and feeding the sheep.

23

So are the GB now saying that they are NOT the "faithful and discreet slave"?

by stuckinarut2 in

so can someone clarify this please?.

the claim has been made that the gb is the faithful and discreet slave.

especially was this highlighted during the agm (when the silver bible was released).. but are they now saying that this "appointment" isn't happening until the "great tribulation"?.

Listener

Matthew 24: 45Who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?+ 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so!+ 47 Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.48 “But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’+ 49 and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know,+ 51 and he will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his place with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.+

Wait for It has given a good summary.

From the above scriptures, prior to 2013 the GB taught -

- the FDS was appointed by Jesus in the 1st Century to feed the domestics

- the domestics were the anointed

- in 1919 after an inspection of the temple the FDS were found faithful and appointed over all his belongings

- the belongings included all the material holdings of the Watchtower and the other sheep

- the FDS was made up of the anointed with the GB being the representative of the anointed

In 2013 the GB taught

- the FDS was appointed over the domestics in 1919

- the FDS is made up of the Governing Body members when they come together as a group

- the domestics now include the anointed and other sheep (as well as the Governing Body members) and the GB just loves this teaching because it elevates the position of the other sheep whilst at the same time downgrades the position of the anointed.

- the FDS has not yet been appointed over all Christ's belongings, that is during the GT

- all the anointed (not just the FDS which exists only since 1919) will be appointed over all Christ's belongings at the GT, it is a shared reward

- the FDS is currently faithful & discreet and will continue to be because the wicked slave is just a hypothetical. In so doing, they have spoken for Jesus in announcing this before his return where he is supposed to be making that judgement.