Posts by Listener

23

Washington Post is carrying the story: Australian Jehovah’s Witnesses protected over a thousand members accused of child abuse, report says

by AndersonsInfo in

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/11/28/australian-jehovahs-witnesses-protected-over-a-thousand-members-accused-of-child-abuse-report-says/.

over the course of about six decades, more than 1,000 members of the jehovah’s witnesses were accused of sexually abusing australian children, according to a new report.

victims were ordered to keep quiet.

Listener

Who is he trying to kid when he says they are taking it seriously? Their written response to the first report was anything but serious when they denied, refuted and argued against just about everything.

21

Royal Commission Australia - Report into Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Society has been released

by OrphanCrow in

link to pdf:.

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/getattachment/c2d1f1f5-a1f2-4241-82fb-978d072734bd/report-of-case-study-no-29.

reading it now...no comment yet.

Listener

It is amusing that the Commission included the fact that the growth of the numbers of JWs in Australia was not keeping up with it's population growth

Over the past 25 years, the active membership of the organisation in Australia has grown 29 per cent from approximately 53,000 members in 1990.51 In the same period Australia’s population growth has been approximately 38 per cent.52

Their failure to report child abuse crimes in the State of New South Wales is being addressed and will be further addressed later on. This is what Angus Stuart was going to report the Watchtower's Lawyer, Mr Toole for failing to do.

Evidence Act 1995 (NSW). We do not accept that an elder of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation will never be obliged to report his knowledge or belief that child sexual abuse has been committed. Particularly where the abuser confesses to their crime, the obligation to report is compelling. The Royal Commission will consider further the issue of the protection of the confessional in a later public hearing

This again, will really put them in the hot seat because this Act goes way beyond the obligation to report Child Abuse, it is likely that it includes reporting many other crimes, such as rape. Ignorance of the law is no excuse in Australia and if the Org. accepts that they in fact do have an obligation then biblicly they would be required to report all past crimes as required under the legislation.

Will the Watchtower be prepared to wait until they are charged with this failure so that it can be tested out in court or will they voluntarily obey the law? It's a big gamble because this Commission is telling them directly that they are failing in adhering to the Law.

The Commission continues to explain why the two witness rule is not adequate

Regardless of the biblical origins of the two-witness rule, the Jehovah’s Witness organisation’s retention of and continued application of the rule to a complaint of child sexual abuse is wrong. It fails to reflect the learning of the many people who have been involved in examining the behaviour of abusers and the circumstances of survivors. It shows a failure by the organisation to recognise that the rule will more often than not operate in favour of a perpetrator of child sexual abuse, who will not only avoid sanction but will also remain in the congregation and the community with their rights intact and with the capacity to interact with their victim.585

This leaves the organization in a serious quandary and one that I expect the Commission might try to help them address. The Commission acknowledges the fact that the org. continues to be firm in it's resolve not to change the two witness rule.

Although it sees it as archaic and in need of changing there may be other ways of working around this. The rule, in itself, does not prevent the organization from reporting accusations and this may be another reason why the Commission wants to further delve into 'confessional privileges'. As it is, the Commission points out that their internal processes fall short in a number of areas.

The report indicates that they want the organization to take the initiative in reporting and the benefits of doing so.

Reproval and disfellowshipping are not effective mechanisms for protecting children in the congregation and in the broader community.

There is no evidence before the Royal Commission that the Jehovah’s Witness organisation has properly considered that risk in developing its precautionary measures for dealing with known or alleged perpetrators of child sexual abuse.

If it wasn't clear enough for Watchtower to recognize how they are protecting the abuser throughout this report and proves it with factual information, it is clearly noted by this comment.

A survivor of child sexual abuse may therefore be faced with the impossible choice between staying in an organisation which is protective of their abuser in order to retain their social and familial network and leaving the organisation and losing that entire network as a result.634

How sad it is to remember Lett's words when he scoffed at the idea that some people are of the belief that they are permissive towards pedophiles.

21

Royal Commission Australia - Report into Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Society has been released

by OrphanCrow in

link to pdf:.

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/getattachment/c2d1f1f5-a1f2-4241-82fb-978d072734bd/report-of-case-study-no-29.

reading it now...no comment yet.

Listener

Schnell, you might like to put this quote from the Watchtower just before the link.

In reading this report the Organization should heed it's own advice.

From the 2017 March Watchtower under the subject of "Give Honor to Whom it is Due"

Government oﬃcials are expected to maintain law and order and to care for the needs of their citizens. This brings beneﬁts to all. Accordingly, the apostle Paul advised Christians to view such human governmental authorities as“superior authorities” to whom Christians should be in subjection. ... our showing government oﬃcials due respect and honor can at times have positive, even unexpected,results.

By listening and implementing the suggestions from this RC many improvements can be made. If they are sincerely interested in the victims and prevention they will wisely respect their advice and humbly make further changes.

11

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-27-2016 WT Study (CHILDREN FAITH)

by blondie in

jw
friends

blondie’s highlights from the november 27, 2016 wt study (september 2016) (parents build children faith).

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-september-2016/.

excellent general website: www.jwfacts.com .

Listener

Thanks for your review Blondie, I've missed reading them.

Use GOOD illustrations—not the lame ones the WTS provides or worse they ones other jws make up.

Great advice

16

The Metropolitan Museum Oasis Bible Tours in NYC

by Beachlover in

jw
friends

i just came home from a day in nyc and was taken to the met for the the woman and her offspring tour i went to keep peace and just enjoy my family.

i've been to the metrpolitan museum of art on many occasions and have enjoyed spending time wandering thru the exhibits appreciating the art and history.

since all family members wanted to do the tour by the wts entitled a woman and her offspring, i thought i could just follow along and just enjoy the art and exhibits.. in all honesty, i'm still amazed at this whole tour.

Listener

I wasn't aware that they had changed 'her seed' to 'her offspring' so did a bit of research. It appears that they introduced this idea over 10 years ago in the Revelation climax book.

First, there is the seed, or offspring, of the Serpent. What is this? It surely includes those other spirit creatures who joined Satan in his rebellion and who were finally “hurled down with him” to the realm of the earth.

They then argue that 'her seed' refers to more than just one person (Jesus)

14 In the Bible, anointed Christians are called Jesus’ brothers, and as his brothers, they share the same Father and the same mother. (Hebrews 2:11) Their Father is Jehovah God. Hence, their mother must be “the woman,” God’s wifelike celestial organization. They become a secondary part of the seed, Christ Jesus being the primary part. The congregation of these spirit-begotten Christians on earth make up God’s visible organization that serves under his womanlike organization in the heavens, where they will be united with Christ Jesus at their resurrection. (Romans 8:14-17; Galatians 3:16, 29) Though not part of the seed, millions of other sheep out of all nations are being united to serve with God’s organization on earth

Why should that be a big deal for JWs? Because they have said this -

Furthermore, Jehovah foretold that a future “seed” would redeem mankind from sin. (1 John 3:8) W 2010 5/1

Did you tip the Brother well? The best tip would have been a glossy brochure advertising a real tour.

10

Wills - A disgruntled father making a final point

by Listener in

an unusual and amusing will was contested in an australian court a few years ago.the deceased man separated from his wife in 1959 and shortly after the wife was baptized as a jw.

in the following years their four children also got baptized.

apparently this enraged the deceased for the remainder of his life, who was himself a catholic.his will included two conditions that his four children were required to fulfill before they would qualify to receive their share of the inheritance.

Listener

An unusual and amusing Will was contested in an Australian Court a few years ago.

The deceased man separated from his wife in 1959 and shortly after the wife was baptized as a JW. In the following years their four children also got baptized. Apparently this enraged the deceased for the remainder of his life, who was himself a Catholic.

His Will included two conditions that his four children were required to fulfill before they would qualify to receive their share of the inheritance. They were required to attend his funeral and be baptised in the Catholic Church within three months of his death. His four JW adult children did attend his funeral but didn't become Catholics.

The adult children sought to have the condition of becoming a Catholic as being void or of no effect. The Court, after several hearings, made the decision that they could not inherit their share as they did not fulfill the condition. The money was then divided amongst 13 other relatives (including grandchildren)

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/nsw/NSWSC/2014/1059.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=Carolyn%20Margaret%20Hickin

16

Children and Blood Transfusions

by Listener in

a hospital in qld.

australia sought orders to allow a blood transfusion on a minor if necessary.

this occurred on the 12th june 2015.the child was 7 years old and required a liver transplant within the next two or three years otherwise death was seen as inevitable.

Listener

A Hospital in Qld. Australia sought orders to allow a blood transfusion on a minor if necessary. This occurred on the 12th June 2015.

The child was 7 years old and required a liver transplant within the next two or three years otherwise death was seen as inevitable. With this procedure there is a 95% likelihood that a blood transfusion would be required so the Hospital wanted to ensure that authority was in place beforehand as the JW parents refused to consent. However, they did indicate that they would obey a court order if the hospital was given authorization to administer blood.

As expected, the Hospital/Doctors were granted this permission.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/qld/QSC/2015/185.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=jehovah

It appears to be the general policy of JW parents to accept any court orders and not to intervene in blood transfusions. Yet their no. 1 rule is that when man's laws conflict with God's laws they will uphold God's laws. They therefore are not doing this in the case of their children.

It's a topic they do not discuss in their publications much these days (children and blood transfusions). There is an article back in 1967 12/1 that does go into some detail. These are the main points

Christian fathers are obliged to teach this law and enforce it with regard to their minor children, for by God’s law the fathers are the spiritual, religious guardians as well as the domestic parental caretakers of their underage children. The Christian witnesses of Jehovah today recognize that fact and follow the divine rule of conduct. They endeavor to keep their children from violating God’s law to Noah and also the Jerusalem Council’s decree. (Eph. 6:4) Rightly they try to protect their children from taking foreign blood into them.
Do parents who are Jehovah’s witnesses really have the right to do this? Certain doctors, judges and lawmakers blind themselves to God’s law and to religious liberty and to Christian conscience and say No! These flouters of God’s law that applies to Christians claim that, when Jehovah’s witnesses refuse to let their children have a blood transfusion when a mere human doctor orders them to have it, Jehovah’s witnesses are dangerous parents to have over children and they lose their right to the guardianship of their own flesh-and-blood children. Such children must therefore become the wards of the political State, even in States where there is a separation of Church and State.
22 Thus it comes about that judges have had children taken from their own Christian parents and placed in the hands of appointed guardians that believe in transfusions. These have had the bodies of these seized children assaulted with a transfusion in shameful disregard of God’s law and conscientious objections of the Christian parents. If a child survives such a forced transfusion, such violators salve their consciences for having “saved a life.”....

Either rejecting blood transfusions are God's laws or not. In the case of children, however, it is not the case, they will allow it if ordered by the court and therefore choose man's law over God's law (and this is nothing to complain about).

Their convictions can become seriously weakened when other problems come into play. For instance, being charged and jailed if they were to remove their child from hospital prior to a court ordered blood transfusion being administered. The publicity and backlash from the public would prove too negative for them.

This does demonstrate that there are circumstances in which they do permit blood transfusions by not actively preventing it from being administered. Their double standards should send out warning signals to any JW that their stance on blood is not genuine.

12

Poopie so happy now . Based on the new awake I can now smile

by poopie in

jw
friends

at disfellowshipped people the awake gave me permission poopie so happy.

Listener

SparrowDown, I think your second point is on target.

The Awake No. 1, 2017 has an article explaining the benefits of smiling.

Good on you Poopie for showing a friendly smile to df'd ones.

20

GB member Geoffrey Jackson going apostate

by darkspilver in

jw
friends

yes, it's true, geoffrey jackson, the cleverest member of the governing body, is going apostate.. he's already written two scholarly books, the question is .... when is his third book going to be released!!.....

desirousofchange: "faded" is definitely only an "apostate" term.

i don't know of it being used by wt publications or "in the dark" jwsberrygerry: geoff jackson used it during the arc..

Listener

In Oct. 2016 a morning worship video was uploaded onto JW org tv titled "a word spoken at the right time" and presented by Geoffrey Jackson.

34

So the governing body is NOT inspired...are they still "spirit directed"?

by NikL in

okay there has been lots of buzz about the feb 2017 wt where they say the governing body is not inspired nor infallible.

yet, they are still using the baptism questions.

the second one being... "do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of jehovah’s witnesses in association with god’s spirit-directedorganization?".

Listener

In the November broadcast Losch said this

Whereas Jesus’ teachings and the word of God are inspired the FDS is not inspired although it champions the truth. Nevertheless the FDS provides spiritual food. Whereas in the first century there was supernatural spiritual food available for apostles and bible writers, in the time of the end Jehovah does not bestow this miraculous gift anymore as explained at 1 Corinthians 13:8. Although there is no divine inspiration today still Jesus leads his people progressively through the services of the faithful slave.

If there has been no divine inspiration since the 1st Century then how did the Bible remain relatively complete down to our day? There stand on there being no inspiration today leaves the Bible itself in question.

In the Insight book under Inspiration they say this

Authority of Copies and Translations. Absolute inerrancy is therefore to be attributed to the written Word of God. This is true of the original writings, none of which are known to exist today. The copies of those original writings and the translations made in many languages cannot lay claim to absolute accuracy. There is solid evidence and sound reason for believing, however, that the available manuscripts of the Sacred Scriptures do provide copies of the written Word of God in nearly exact form, the points in question having little bearing on the sense of the message conveyed. God’s own purpose in preparing the Sacred Scriptures and the inspired declaration that “the saying of Jehovah endures forever” give assurance that Jehovah God has preserved the internal integrity of the Scriptures through the centuries.—1Pe 1:25.

Losch quotes 1 Cor. 13:8 as confirming that there is no inspiration today. That scripture from the NWT states

Whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are [miraculously spoken] tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with.” (1 Corinthians 13:8)

It states that prophesying and speaking in tongues would cease and also that knowledge would be done away with. They claim that knowledge would actually increase in the last days with the light getting brighter etc. It appears that there slant on this scripture can be found in Watchtower 2008 12/1, which they've kindly added to this scripture so that we can understand it better. It reads

Whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are [miraculously spoken] tongues, they will cease; whether there is [divinely revealed] knowledge, it will be done away with.” (1 Corinthians 13:8)

There we have it, there is no divinely revealed knowledge today. We then have to ask how they identity of the Other Sheep was revealed to them, how they know that Jesus appointed them as the FDS and how they know that they are personally anointed with a heavenly hope.