Posts by DanaBug

Which concrete theories of evolution are in dispute? The dispute about H. floresiensis is whether they are homo sapiens with a genetic or endocrine disorder or a new species of homini and if so, how are they descended from or related to h. erectus. The theories of evolution are not in dispute, what is in dispute is how this particular group evolved and what that means in relation to how and when humans evolved. So the rest of your sentence is true, just not the first part.

Hominini is the tribe of Homininae that comprises Humans (Homo), and two species of the genus Pan (the Common Chimpanzee and the Bonobo), their ancestors, and the extinct lineages of their common ancestor (but see the discussion below for alternative vies). Members of the tribe are called hominins (cf. Hominidae, "hominids"). The subtribe Hominina is the "human" branch, including genus Homo and its close relatives, but not Pan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominini

The discoverers (archaeologist Mike Morwood and colleagues) proposed that a variety of features, both primitive and derived, identify these individuals as belonging to a new species, H. floresiensis, within the taxonomic tribe of Hominini. Hominini currently comprises the extant species human (the only living member of the genus Homo), bonobo (genus Pan), and chimpanzee (genus Pan); their ancestors; and the extinct lineages of their common ancestor. [1] [3] The discoverers also proposed that H. floresiensis lived contemporaneously with modern humans (Homo sapiens) on Flores. [4] Doubts that the remains constitute a new species were soon voiced by the Indonesian anthropologist Teuku Jacob, who suggested that the skull of LB1 was a microcephalic modern human. Two studies by paleoneurologist Dean Falk and her colleagues (2005, 2007) rejected this possibility. [5] [6] [7] Falk et al. (2005) has been rejected by Martin et al. (2006) and Jacob et al. (2006) and defended by Morwood (2005) and Argue, Donlon et al. (2006).

Two orthopedic researches published in 2007 both reported evidence to support species status for H. floresiensis. A study of three tokens of carpal (wrist) bones concluded there were similarities to the carpal bones of a chimpanzee or an early hominin such as Australopithecus and also differences from the bones of modern humans. [8] [9] A study of the bones and joints of the arm, shoulder, and lower limbs also concluded that H. floresiensis was more similar to early humans and apes than modern humans. [10] [11] In 2009, the publication of a cladistic analysis [12] and a study of comparative body measurements [13] provided further support for the hypothesis that H. floresiensis and Homo sapiens are separate species.

Critics of the claim for species status continue to believe that these individuals are Homo sapiens possessing pathologies of anatomy and physiology. A second hypothesis in this category is that the individuals were born without a functioning thyroid, resulting in a type of endemic cretinism (myxoedematous, ME). [14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis#Laron_syndrome_hypothesis

Flores Man Denied Status As New Species

Poor Flores Man just can't rest in peace. All year a controversy has raged about whether the bones found in 2003 on the remote Indonesian island of Flores represent a new species. Australian paleoanthropologist Peter Brown insists the skeleton is a new type of human who should be called Homo floresiensis. Others say he's simply a pygmy, five feet tall, who had microcephaly, a condition that results in a small, oddly shaped skull.

That's why Robert Eckhardt, a paleoanthropologist at Pennsylvania State University, and a team have intently analyzed the 18,000-year-old bones. The group's research papers, undergoing peer review, are unequivocal. "Homo floresiensis," says Eckhardt, "is not a valid new human species."

Brown is dismissive. "Robert Eckhardt is thick as a plank," he says. Working on the joint Australian-Indonesian team that discovered Flores Man, Brown concluded that the brain shape, long arms, and chinless jaw indicate descent from an early hominid. He also believes Flores Man is, in fact, a woman who stood less than four feet tall. But Brown has lost his ability to prove his case. The Indonesian government has not renewed the Australians' permits to excavate on Flores, ending his chances to find a second skull to support the theory. Compounding the problem, the bones have been badly damaged. The pelvis is shattered and the jaw broken, injuries that Brown and Teuku Jacob, a senior Indonesian archaeologist and proponent of the pygmy theory, blame on each other. —Zach Zorich

http://discovermagazine.com/2006/jan/archaeology-copy

66 Hobbit Wars Heat Up

When small, humanlike bones were discovered in a cave on the Indonesian island of Flores in 2003, anthropologists knew they had found something exceedingly odd. But what? A new species of dwarf people? A colony of pygmy freaks? Half-joking, some researchers simply referred to the remains as "hobbits."

The evidence from 2006 has sharpened the speculation. In September Penn State evolutionary biologist Robert Eckhardt published a paper attacking the idea that Flores Man was a separate species of hominin, related to Homo erectus, that lived in isolation as recently as 13,000 years ago. That idea is championed by Peter Brown of the University of New England in Armidale, Australia, a codiscoverer of Flores Man.

Eckhardt argues that the bones share many features, such as rotated teeth and a receding chin, with the Rampasasa pygmies living today near the cave where the remains were found. He notes that the average Rampasasa is just a foot taller than Flores Man. "They may have been going through a temporary food shortage that made them small even for pygmies," he says. In addition, his team found that the most complete specimen of Flores Man was so misshapen that the individual likely suffered from some sort of developmental abnormality, which might explain why the brain was so small.

But when anatomists at Stony Brook University in New York examined the Flores specimens at the request of Brown's team, they supported that group's very different interpretation. They found that Flores Man's shoulders were hunched slightly more forward than in modern humans, and the extraordinarily short legs ended in long feet. Such features seem to tag the Flores people as a separate species, not pygmy versions of modern humans. In addition, some of the oldest Flores remains date back before modern humans were thought to be in the area, which suggests that Flores Man was a distinct species. These little remains could rewrite the story of modern human evolution, so don't expect the debate, or the tempers, to cool down anytime soon.

Jeffrey Winters

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jan/paleontology/article_view?b_start:int=1&-C#66

In one comparative study [subscription required], anthropologist Adam Gordon, now an assistant professor at the University of Albany, along with colleagues at George Washington University, found that the skull of LB1, nicknamed “the hobbit,” was “well outside the range of modern human variation,” according to Gordon. “When you consider the relationship between size and shape of the skull, [it] is most similar to Homo habilis,” a small hominid that disappeared more than a million and a half years ago.

In another study, paleoanthropologist William Jungers of Stony Brook University in New York studied the foot of the hobbit and found it, true to its namesake, strikingly large relative to the size of the body, with very short big toes. Jungers argues that this foot structure links the hobbit to earlier hominids. Claims that they were diseased humans, Jungers says, “are ridiculous.”

But Robert B. Eckhardt, an evolutionary biologist at Penn State University, notes that the DNA isolated from the remains matches that of Homo sapiens, and no study has ruled out the possibility that the hobbit was a human with a developmental abnormality.

http://discovermagazine.com/2009/jan/085

7

They're Growing Hearts In The Lab

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1372938/live-human-heart-grown-lab-using-stem-cells-potential-transplant-breakthrough.html.

at this juncture, i will add my usual 'intercourse you, watchtower and your lying promises' ..................... realizing full well that a future witness will benefit from a lab grown heart while parking his flying car and while muttering 'everything is worse and worse'.

i guess that's no differerent than watching an ultra-orthodox rabbi in 18th century ghetto dress on satellite tv or jihadists using the internet to extol the virtues of a corrupt and ignorant caliphate in the middle ages.. if this keeps up, i will be hard pressed not to empathize with atheists who absolutely despise religion.

DanaBug

Lol! And let's hope they can grow functioning brains soon too!

49

Discussion Topic God's Sudden Personality Change as Seen in the Bible

by charlie brown jr. in

ok i'm sure this has been talked to death... but since we have a thread saying we're missing a good debate here we go..... when the bible meant something to me way back when .....even then i pondered.... god starts off as this vengeful being..."listen to me or i'll lay your soul to waste".

to his enemies ....keep your distance or you will feel the wrath of yahweh or if i want what you have ....best leave now unless any of you men wanna die.

then overnight.. he is patient, loving, kind, his son says love they neighbor.

DanaBug

Lol! Welcome, fade_away!

Charlie Brown,

I think the bible makes a lot more sense if you look at it as the evolution of a group of people and a religion. Throw the god part out, it's just a book written by men of the same ethnicity. Have you read God: A Biography or The Evolution of God? Miles' book is a biography of the character of God in the Tanakh. Wright's book goes back to hunter-gatherer tribes and how monotheistic religions evolved from that. I don't agree with everything in either of those, but there was a lot of fascinating stuff in both of them that was new to me.

23

June 15, 2011 WT... Are they really getting that desperate?

by Alfred in

so i was just browsing the june 15, 2011 (study edition) watchtower and came across this seemingly desperate article in the last two pages (29 & 30):.

a christian has a scriptural obligation to care for his family, and that includes providing for their material needs.

(1 tim.

DanaBug

If the entire passage is read in its full context, it’s quite clear that God was merely reminding Baruch to stay focused on the task at hand since Jerusalem was about to be destroyed.

It's the same thing for a witness though, isn't it? What's the point of getting an education to get a good job if this system isn't going to last much longer? Oh but wait, the overlapping generation. Maybe it would be a good idea to plan for the future, lol!

Someone on another post about this article pointed out that in order for that guy to even be a programmer, he had to go to college.That's not something you teach yourself. Guess the org is hoping JWs don't know that. An education can be really dangerous for a JW, you start noticing all the logical fallacies in articles and the holes in your beliefs. They are that desperate. It's amazing to me all the things they can't do and yet they benefit from everyone else who does it, doctors and nurses, scientists and technology, soldiers and government. They're parasitic.

27

Good talk with mum and dad

by boyzone in

she's 77 and both mum and dad have been witnesses for nearly 30 years.

they've been pretty hardline in their time but just recently things have changed.

today, to my joy, mum wanted to celebrate her birthday so i bought her a big bunch of flowers and a box of chocolates (yeah i know, not very imaginative) and intend to take them out to lunch tomorrow when i've got more time.

DanaBug

That's wonderful, boyzone! I wonder how many other JWs are seeing this too.

147

Watch Tower Society Facing Criminal Charges and Indictment in Australia

by AndersonsInfo in

andersonsinfo is reporting the following news about the "criminal charges and indictment of the watch tower society in australia" by taking some extracts from different parts of jehovah's witness, steven unthank's blog site, http://www.jwnews.net.

please go to the blog to understand the "indictment" and for detailed reading there is much more information found in a:.

pdf version of the 664 page document "the submission 2011" being the:.

DanaBug

marked

41

Test Yourself. How much are you a JW ....

by sleepingbeauty in

are you a jw or if you were one do you still have any jw traits left?

take this quiz to see... .

http://www.thebentinel.com/jw-quiz.php.

DanaBug

Lol!

Took the beliefnet test again, got 100% for Secular Humanist, UU, Liberal Quaker and 80% Neo Pagan. Bad association! It's rubbing off on me, lol!

41

Test Yourself. How much are you a JW ....

by sleepingbeauty in

are you a jw or if you were one do you still have any jw traits left?

take this quiz to see... .

http://www.thebentinel.com/jw-quiz.php.

DanaBug

Or a Sikh, headisspinning! I think it'd be sick to be a Sikh!

Anyway, I scored a 23%. My 4-door car did me in. Last time I took the beliefnet quiz I got UU and then Quakers. Off to take it again!

7

They're Growing Hearts In The Lab

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1372938/live-human-heart-grown-lab-using-stem-cells-potential-transplant-breakthrough.html.

at this juncture, i will add my usual 'intercourse you, watchtower and your lying promises' ..................... realizing full well that a future witness will benefit from a lab grown heart while parking his flying car and while muttering 'everything is worse and worse'.

i guess that's no differerent than watching an ultra-orthodox rabbi in 18th century ghetto dress on satellite tv or jihadists using the internet to extol the virtues of a corrupt and ignorant caliphate in the middle ages.. if this keeps up, i will be hard pressed not to empathize with atheists who absolutely despise religion.

DanaBug

We start with appreciating a promise of the 'lame walking and the blind seeing' and then nearly ignore the results that actually emerge.

That made me smile! One of my few beliefs is we'll fix our own problems when we quit waiting on invisible guy to do it. I was watching a doc the other night, Nat Geo I think, they were growing fully-functioning rat hearts and lungs from stem cells; and now this! Humans are amazing, we need to start believing that.