My tusks are a bit yellow, perhaps stained somewhat from too much tea, eyes are brown, complexion definitely pinkish, ponytail thinning desperately from what it once was and my tail, well, never mind.
Nickolas
JoinedPosts by Nickolas
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42
Consequences of speaking out
by Nickolas ini've been married to the same wonderful woman for 37 years.
she's been a jehovah's witness for 33 of those years, i am not.
i studied with the wbts for a couple of years beginning late 1974 before deciding it wasn't for me.
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84
DF'd and struggling....LONG POST........my story.
by confuzzled777 inhow do i make a long story short?
i am fully aware that if anyone in my area were to read this that they will know who i am.
i was disfellowshipped on january 28th 2010 after an "interview" about an evening of bowling with friends and family back in november 2009. i was among 4 who were disfellowshipped and 6 who were publicly reproved.
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Nickolas
I read SA's post twice, because it is so well done, the others only once but indulgently. I joined this board only very recently, seeking insights into my own situation, and can't help but be impressed with the general level of conversation, even if I am only a fly on the wall for most of them. The average intelligence in this board is, in my estimation, well above the population norm. And so is the love. Must be what attracts people like you folk to the WTBTS in the first place.
I confess to being atheist. For those of you still reading, an atheist's perspectives might be just a little bit interesting and it provides me with an opportunity to contribute back. I've laid out my story in other recent posts so won't repeat here. Well before I studied the bible with the WTBTS and then broke away, I was a lapsed Catholic who did the whole nine yards until my mid teens. Catechism, first communion, more catechism, first confession, confirmation, choir (not abused), still more catechism and Catholic school from kindergarten to grade 8 (often abused). (If you're wondering about catechism, it was much like a WT study using books sanctioned by the diocease, except the bible wasn't part of it. Actually reading the bible wasn't on because it was impossible for most of us, it being available only in Latin at the time, English translations like the KJ having been banned as heretical - but I digress). My apostacy from the RC church began with what was called the Ecumenical Council under Pope John XXIII. Now you know I'm an old man, but that only means I've been around the block a couple of times.
We were taught in Catechism back in the 50's and early 60's that eating meat on Friday was a mortal sin for which, if unconfessed and unabsolved, we would burn in Hell for all eternity. In 1963 the Ecumenical Council lifted the prohibition, although some Catholics continued to believe that it was still a serious offence, just commuted down to the venial sin category, now punishable only by a few centuries in Purgatory. Purgatory was a kind of lobby of Hell, same awful suffering, only not permanent - maybe a couple hundred thousand years, tops. When I asked in Catechism if those in Hell who had eaten meat on Friday would have their sentences commuted to Purgatory I was strapped three times on either palm. I apparently came across as being a sarcastic little shit when I asked the question, at least this is what my parents were told. I think back on the event with mixed emotions but mostly I am grateful because it opened the door of my mind sufficiently to allow some reasoned light to shine through and in so doing allow me to escape the lunacy of the Roman Catholic Church. Many years later, inconsistencies in Watchtower doctrine and practise would free me once again.
To get to the point, it could be you have been done an enormous favor, confuzzled. If you are one of those still reading this, I might urge you to take AG's advice and become a seeker of the truth.
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Consequences of speaking out
by Nickolas ini've been married to the same wonderful woman for 37 years.
she's been a jehovah's witness for 33 of those years, i am not.
i studied with the wbts for a couple of years beginning late 1974 before deciding it wasn't for me.
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Nickolas
More good advice, thank you. I require no convincing that my wife's faith in the WTBS is virtually impenetrable, also that she loves me deeply. Neither one of us has ever wanted anyone else. We have been devoted lovers since we were teenagers and we have been together more than 39 years, 37 of those as husband and wife, 33 of those living with this philosophical disconnection. She loves me for many reasons, not the least of which is I am an honest, moral and honorable man in her eyes, and I think I am, too. What disturbs my sleep is the ticking of the clock, the time we have left together. She has a fervent hope of everlasting life while I do not. She recognises that my atheism, materialism and hedonism are not compatible with an expectation of entering into Jehovah's Kingdom (Matthew 19:24, John 11:26) and has brought herself to the verge of tears thinking about eternity without me. The way I feel toward this woman is if given the choice between eternity without her and oblivion I would readily choose the latter. That's a completely theoretical hypothetical to an atheist, to be sure, but I am not at all sure I could go on living without her if it turns out that she makes her exit before I do. Unconditional love. Her love for me is powerful, but her love for Jehovah, who I do not believe exists, is stronger still. She says this is an apples and oranges comparison, and maybe she's right, but it doesn't feel very good.
We are both getting old. 33 years of baby steps of hints and subtle comments (and yes, sometimes big leaps backwards from an unfortunate heated outburst) have gained no ground and I begin to feel a greater sense of urgency. Still, I do appreciate the insights available in this forum and welcome your coaching.
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news about the DO Shepparding program!!!
by seenitall inthe governing body has decided to launch a pilot program of shepherding district overseers and their wives.
why is this needed?
everyone has an arrangement for personal shepherding except district overseers and their wives.
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Nickolas
A history lesson, if only a little over the top.
The seeds of the Roman Catholic inquisition were suspicions amongst the Church hierarchy that there were those in Christendom who professed faith, particularly those who had been converted, who were actually heretics, Satan worshippers and non-believers. It was moot at the time that anyone who openly professed otherwise was subject to horrible retribution and all mouths were clamped shut in fear. As a consequence it took extraordinarily brutal measures to exact confessions out of those who fell under suspicion. Terrified people attempted to deflect the possibility of the spotlight falling upon themselves by turning in others, often at random or on the basis of differences in behaviour or appearance. The Inquisitors themselves demonstrated the absoluteness of their own faith through the zeal with which they meted out torture and punishment, lest they themselves should fall under suspicion. History repeated itself with the witch hunts in the early American colonies, precisely the same dynamic.
There is an old French saying which translates "The more things change, the more things stay the same."
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Consequences of speaking out
by Nickolas ini've been married to the same wonderful woman for 37 years.
she's been a jehovah's witness for 33 of those years, i am not.
i studied with the wbts for a couple of years beginning late 1974 before deciding it wasn't for me.
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Nickolas
Thanks, all.
This morning before we got up my wife snuggled up to me and reaffirmed her absolute love. I smiled and said "Oh yeah?" She smiled back and said "Lifetime guarantee!" My reply was "But you're going to live forever." No response.
But you need to study ahead of time to know what you're talking about.
If you get stuck, you can always ask us.
But beware; don't get sucked in.
You might think that will never happen.
A lot of us here thought that too and ended up inside.
Thank you, Ding. That is wise counsel. I'm going to stick around this site for awhile and learn, undoubtedly ask a few questions along the way. And I won't get sucked in. Been there and escaped with my mind intact. Over the years I have actually tried hard to believe what my wife believes, because I yearn so much for us to be on the same page, but it's just impossible.
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Consequences of speaking out
by Nickolas ini've been married to the same wonderful woman for 37 years.
she's been a jehovah's witness for 33 of those years, i am not.
i studied with the wbts for a couple of years beginning late 1974 before deciding it wasn't for me.
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Nickolas
Thanks, billy. Your post came in just as I was leaving my response. Great advice.
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42
Consequences of speaking out
by Nickolas ini've been married to the same wonderful woman for 37 years.
she's been a jehovah's witness for 33 of those years, i am not.
i studied with the wbts for a couple of years beginning late 1974 before deciding it wasn't for me.
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Nickolas
You could lose your wife. leavingwt, that's what frightens me most, but I was under the impression that there are strict rules for divorce, even in the WTBS. The relatives will cut off all association with you. Ok, so not all bad
I would like it if you would even go as far as inviting the DFd person around and making him very welcome. That would be your right. Loz, my wife has made it clear she's ok with the df'ed one, her nephew, coming to our house, but she won't allow herself to be in it at the same time, which I cannot agree with.
You're never going to deprogram a JW in one or two settings. undercover, that implies deprogramming is possible. My wildest dream. Has anyone to your knowledge devised a detailed deprogramming strategy complete with facts and arguments?
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Consequences of speaking out
by Nickolas ini've been married to the same wonderful woman for 37 years.
she's been a jehovah's witness for 33 of those years, i am not.
i studied with the wbts for a couple of years beginning late 1974 before deciding it wasn't for me.
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Nickolas
I've been married to the same wonderful woman for 37 years. She's been a Jehovah's Witness for 33 of those years, I am not. I studied with the WBTS for a couple of years beginning late 1974 before deciding it wasn't for me. Over the years whatever faith I had faded, first to agnosticism then to disbelief in a personal god. Conversations we've had over the years about the WTBS have generally ended with me angry and her in tears, so we generally just don't talk about it.
We often entertain Jehovah's Witnesses in our home and have on several occasions socialized with a group of several couples from my wife's congregation. Members of my wife's family who are also Witnesses often stay over. Up until a year or so ago I consistently asked if one of our dinner guests would like to ask a blessing at our table and the invitation was always taken up. It was a courtesy that quietly ended a year or so ago when my wife's nephew was disfellowshipped and subsequently shunned, which crossed a line in my mind. A courtesy I have not abandoned yet is remaining diplomatically silent whenever the conversation veers into supernatural beliefs. It doesn't happen often, I think out of respect for my status as a non-JW, but I am finding it more and more difficult to hold my tongue when it does. It is also becoming difficult for me not to start a conversation expressing my doubts about the Watchtower organization, its doctrines and its practices. It is just a matter of time before I speak out.
So, the question to those who have some experience in these matters. What should I expect if I express my views openly to my wife's family and to her WT associates? I'm no shrinking violet, I just like to know what I'm getting into before I open my mouth. Any other coaching that might help me not put my foot in it would also be appreciated.
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The Most Amazing Thing I've Ever Seen
by TheClarinetist inhttp://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/01/25/charles-darwin-studies-the-evolution-of-pokemon/.
this t-shirt design makes me happy on so many levels... unfortunately, the only print run of it is sold out so i'm doomed never to get it.
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Nickolas
Amazing? I don't get it..
A lame attempt to dis natural selection? Dunno.
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Need to vent/ask opnion/advice on new renter in my house
by bluesapphire inokay, so my girls all moved out and we had three empty rooms and a lot of bills to pay.
so we decided to rent the upstairs room with its own bath.
we also have a three car garage and the single car garage is fully drywalled, has its own entrance and is huge.
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Nickolas
Yeah, it's all been said above. I've been where you are, except the situation was worse and it cost me thousands in defaulted rent. But listen, please. Texting is a cowardly way of dealing with the problem. Telephoning is better, but not much. Get mad but stay controlled. Knock on her door and when she answers it tell her to get out. If she reminds you the law says you need to give her 30 days, then tell her you are ok with that, but that she should be assured that you will be pursuing her to recover the money you are owed, to the point if necessary of handing it over to a collection agency. If, however, she vacates in one week, you'll waive the money.