a fundamental platform of the watchtower bible and tract society, from which its fearsome prognostications are launched, is the inexorable deterioration of the world.
the world is becoming a less and less hospitable place in which to live.
it seems with news of every earthquake, every natural catastrophe, every epidemic, every atrocity, and every disaster manmade or otherwise, there is the inevitable shaking of the finger and stern proclamation, "see?
Part of the point I'm trying to make, Sab. (Seems like we're the only ones discussing this, eh?) What has happened in human genetics is incredibly insightful with respect to understanding what makes us tick (and what makes us sick).
Edit. Hey there, outlaw. I think I recognise him - an elder?
a fundamental platform of the watchtower bible and tract society, from which its fearsome prognostications are launched, is the inexorable deterioration of the world.
the world is becoming a less and less hospitable place in which to live.
it seems with news of every earthquake, every natural catastrophe, every epidemic, every atrocity, and every disaster manmade or otherwise, there is the inevitable shaking of the finger and stern proclamation, "see?
Always steps forward and back.
What about scientific advances in medicine, electronics, physics, genetics, astronomy, oceanography ...
is it not true that the leaders knew that it was a blatant lie when the 1975 teaching was propagated in the 60's?.
Is there ever a time there is not an active thread on this board that refers to 1975?
I've posted this exerpt recently, but will do so again. This is from the speech made by Freddie Franz to a crowd of 20,000 believers, complete with word whiskers and caps where he raised his voice, made in February, 1975 when he talks about the time immediately after Adam's 6,000th birthday:
"And we should not jump to, ah, wrong decisions on that account and say, well, the time after September 5, 1975 is indefinitely long and so it will allow for me, ah, to realise my, ah, human aspirations. Getting married, raising a family and kids or, ah, ah, going to college for a few years and learning engineering and signing a signed, ah, petition as an engineer, civil engineer or electrical engineer or some other prominent, ah, fine paying job. NO! The time does not allow for that, dear friends! The time is SHORT! As the apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians, ah, chapter 7, ah, and verse 29. The time left is REDUCED!"
If you listen to the entire speech, which runs 1h20m, you cannot help but come away with the impression that Freddie actually believed that 1975 was going to mark the beginning of the time of the end. He was as clearly deluded as, I think, are his GB successors.
The entire speech is available here for download: http://www.archive.org/details/WhatIsTheSignficanceOf1975
a fundamental platform of the watchtower bible and tract society, from which its fearsome prognostications are launched, is the inexorable deterioration of the world.
the world is becoming a less and less hospitable place in which to live.
it seems with news of every earthquake, every natural catastrophe, every epidemic, every atrocity, and every disaster manmade or otherwise, there is the inevitable shaking of the finger and stern proclamation, "see?
A fundamental platform of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, from which its fearsome prognostications are launched, is the inexorable deterioration of the World. The World is becoming a less and less hospitable place in which to live. It seems with news of every earthquake, every natural catastrophe, every epidemic, every atrocity, and every disaster manmade or otherwise, there is the inevitable shaking of the finger and stern proclamation, "See? Do you see what's happening? These are signs that the time is short!" It has been ever thus.
But is it? I remember back in the 70's reading dire WT predictions of imminent worldwide famine, the disintegration of law and order and the horrific unraveling of society, none of which happened. If the World is not actually spiraling down toward destruction, what does that do to the credibility of the WT platform? Is life in the world, in fact, not better today than it was at any other time in mankind's existence?
john w. loftus responds to the "angry atheist" assertion.
are we angry atheists?.
.. if we are angry, christians will see this as a sign we are god haters.
Then don't listen to them. And if you perceive a "Fundy Atheist" is preaching at you on a thread, feel free to close and move on to a "Fundy Prejudice" thread where I'm sure you'll find people who think like you.
Touché.
A good conversation starter with a Jehovah's Witness (or, without providing names, any other fundamentalist zealot): I would like you to accept that truth is every bit as important to me as it is to you. Now we can talk.
Very much enjoyed the vid, too.
john w. loftus responds to the "angry atheist" assertion.
are we angry atheists?.
.. if we are angry, christians will see this as a sign we are god haters.
I agree that the world is becoming a better place, though you do see that those countries you stated are "socialist" countries ( not communist but oriented towards heavly funded social programs and social equality), you cna argue that those very ideals are Christian.
We agree on the first point, PSacramento. I've never before equated socialism with Christianity, though, but you could have a point there, too. Golden Rule and all that. It kind of begs the question why the Christian USA is so anti-socialist, however - witness the rabid debate over universal health care. Regardless, it still comes down to a chicken-and-egg conversation. Did man's goodwill toward man come before religion or did religion set the example? Logic tells me that humankind is a social species in which cooperation with one another, however imperfect, is inate and the development of religious coda arrived later on.
Mad Dawg, I have never met an atheist like you describe. If they exist, they're just as foolish as those who blindly accept the existence of God just because they have been told He exists. I identify with your contempt. All the true atheists I know, and I confess to knowing very few, were not taught as children to simply disbelieve. On the contrary, they were raised to believe in God, went through an agonizing process of skepticism, introspection, analysis and subsequent adjustment in their perception of reality that excludes a personal god. This was how it happened in my case. Still, I can believe in God if provided some incontrovertable proof that He exists. All I need is to witness a true and glorious miracle. Let me see and touch and talk with and laugh with my parents once more, and I will weep with joy and I will fall down on my knees and I will praise God in all His glory. Do I think there is the remotest possibility of this happening? No, I do not. But I would be more than willing to be shown wrong.
john w. loftus responds to the "angry atheist" assertion.
are we angry atheists?.
.. if we are angry, christians will see this as a sign we are god haters.
Has anyone noticed that this thread has gone WAY off topic?
Seems to be a tendency in here. Angry atheists, I guess.
My point is that, the removal of God and religion does NOT equal "better times", at least on under the rule of the atheists of the 20th century.
According to Newsweek, the Best overall country in the world to live is Finland (60% atheist/agnostic/non-believer), the best quality of life in the world is Norway (72%), best large nation is Japan (65%), best health care is shared by China which, surprisingly given your observation about Mao, is only 14% atheist. The free world is becoming more secular and, contrary to what the WTBTS teaches, is becoming a better place to live, not worse.
http://www.newsweek.com/photo/2010/08/15/best-countries-in-the-world.html
john w. loftus responds to the "angry atheist" assertion.
are we angry atheists?.
.. if we are angry, christians will see this as a sign we are god haters.
Probably, you may be right, but that doesn't change that fact that those dictators did what they did based on an atheistic POV.
PSacramento, PSacramento, PSacramento. What is to be done with you? Think about this. Mao and Stalin did what they did because they were egomeniacal, bloodthirsty, power-drunk, psychopathic killers. Religion, or more specifically lack of religion, had absolutely nothing to do with it. And, why don't you add Adolf Hitler to your list of 20th century mass muderers? He was a pretty bad dude, too. Holocaust and all that. Is it because Hitler wasn't an atheist? Yeah, that could be it, huh? You just have to read Mein Kampf and listen to his speeches to know that. So, does that mean I can say "it doesn't change the fact that Hitler did what he did based on a religious POV"? Don't think so.
i always found that one particularly laughable.. the jw's would always look for plaudits because they don't christen/baptize infants.
as if they are free thinking pioneers of christianity who let their children come to their own conclusions.. no, they don't baptize their children.. yet,.
they would be happy to make a life & death medical choice for them before they are even old enough to think for themselves.they are happy to have their children 'fight the fine fight' on their parents behalf all the way through primary/high school.
If you were baptized at age 14 as a JW, then when you grow up you THINK it WAS your decision. Thats not easy to overcome, especially if the repercussions of disregarding that decision are incredibly severe.
Bingo.
it's a song by rascal flatts.
it really sums up my feelings about the jw's.
i have finally reached a point where i am at peace with my past.
Going to pour myself a single malt Islay (just to catch up to SBC, you know) and retire for the evening. Catch up to y'all later.
404 already. Time flies.
