john w. loftus responds to the "angry atheist" assertion.
are we angry atheists?.
.. if we are angry, christians will see this as a sign we are god haters.
It's about zealots, period. And when I say zealots, I mean anyone that thinks they should lie, cheat, steal or violate another's human rights and freedoms in the name of their zealoutry. That is where it becomes a real problem.
Woohoo! BTS and I are on the same page!
for those of us who remember it first hand, the 1975 fiasco is a strong indicator that the watchtower bible and tract society is not what it represents itself to be.
in the late 1970's, after several years of unprecedented growth, the wtbts experienced an exodus of disallusioned thousands which many attribute to the failed 1975 prophesy (see www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1975.php for details).
the wtbts hierarchy subsequently played down the great disappointment of 1975, blamed its rank and file for having precipitated it, and has successfully swept it under the carpet.
For those of us who remember it first hand, the 1975 fiasco is a strong indicator that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is not what it represents itself to be. In the late 1970's, after several years of unprecedented growth, the WTBTS experienced an exodus of disallusioned thousands which many attribute to the failed 1975 prophesy (see www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1975.php for details). The WTBTS hierarchy subsequently played down the great disappointment of 1975, blamed its rank and file for having precipitated it, and has successfully swept it under the carpet. The following statement was posted recently in a thread discussing 1975:
(FW Franz') Feb 10, 1975 speech was somewhat of a back-pedal about the date:
- He had earlier given a 1975 pep-talk in mid 1974. Those that had heard both these speeches about WT chronology were unanimous that in his February 1975 talk, he was saying the opposite of what he had said six months before. (Of course, he still concluded with the standard JW fare "the time is short, out there and at 'em, steer clear of college etc, etc, etc - what the WTS were saying before, during, and after 1975; and on forever for that matter!)
The full thread is here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/202250/1/Why-did-the-WTBS-endorse-1975 in which there is a link to a recording of the Feb 10, 1975 speech.
Does anyone else remember the earlier speech? Was it recorded? Was there a coverup?
john w. loftus responds to the "angry atheist" assertion.
are we angry atheists?.
.. if we are angry, christians will see this as a sign we are god haters.
if you really believe that book of yours your going straight to hell for those lies.
That one made me chuckle. Book and Hell in a statement from an atheist, geddit? Nevermind.
I would have preferred you say that organized religion has been abused far to much to NOT view it as having horrible potential for harm.
And on THAT I am sure that everyone agrees.
I think I do, PSacramento. but not entirely sure. The statement is true but it puts emphasis on the potential. A great deal of harm has been done and is being done in the name of religion. That's not potential. It's actual.
i've recently been involved in a thread in which one of the participants, member of this board since april last year and who has made over 1200 posts, had not been aware of the 1975 failure.
isn't that unusual?
it tells me that this board is inefficient at getting the message out.
And that, my friend, is why someone who has been on this board for 19 months can express astonishment learning something that's been around for 35 years.
howdy,.
do you think the society has a planned campaign where they will state that armageddon will be upon us within the next 10 years and actually state that armageddon will definitely hit by 2020?
we all know that they have been drumming into us that "the end is just around the corner", but can you see them pulling another 1975 stunt in order to bring in additional members?.
No, don't think so. The current party line is "we don't know when, nobody does except Jehovah, but we do know from the Bible that it could happen any time now, so be on your toes." Timeless. This is something like the sign that never changes in the neibourhood pub ... "Free beer tomorrow".
i've recently been involved in a thread in which one of the participants, member of this board since april last year and who has made over 1200 posts, had not been aware of the 1975 failure.
isn't that unusual?
it tells me that this board is inefficient at getting the message out.
You just have to know what to look for..
My point exactly.
john w. loftus responds to the "angry atheist" assertion.
are we angry atheists?.
.. if we are angry, christians will see this as a sign we are god haters.
Worked up? Are you kidding? Something "wrong"? What part of "I have no problem with the sign whatsoever" don't you understand? Did you miss the part where I said: "He has every right to post it"? I really, truly don't care if atheists evangelize. But, don't lie to me that they don't evangelize. From what I have seen, atheists get just as worked up as Baptists about the other doing evangelism.
Doesn't sound like you're worked up to me ... ahem (some of us got it, MD).
i've recently been involved in a thread in which one of the participants, member of this board since april last year and who has made over 1200 posts, had not been aware of the 1975 failure.
isn't that unusual?
it tells me that this board is inefficient at getting the message out.
You want they should take an IQ test??
No, not a test. What I had envisioned is somewhere in the text of terms and conditions it saying something like, if you agree with these terms and conditions, click on the green button below. I don't think it is a bad thing for a site like this one to ensure that those who are joining know what it is all about - which I will get to in a moment. I am not suggesting new registrants be forced to read anything beyond that, but should be made aware, for their own benefit, that there are some things they may wish to educate themselves on depending on what specific interest prompted them to join in the first place. Even something as simple as "you are strongly encouraged to read the Best of Topics threads" (which is already labeled the "First stop for new visitors", after all.)
As to the other comments, I can agree to all of your points. A site like this one holds out different values to different people. As to agenda, it appears to me that what it is not speaks more loudly than what it otherwise might be - it is not a site that generally supports the legitimacy of the WTBTS and when one reads the Best of Topics threads that is clearly understood.
Finally, I do not see the fiasco of 1975 as a theological subject at all. I see it as a key issue of credibility that goes to the much larger question of the legitimacy of a Society and what it claims to be. The fact that 1975 has become a non-issue to so many, and that so many aren't even aware that it happened, is mute testimony to the efficiency with which the WTBTS has been able to sweep it, and other facts that reflect badly upon it, under the carpet.
see: http://www.forananswer.org/top_jw/franznwt.htm.
i saw a very long thread on answerbag answering the above question in which there are several jws responding and denyng vehemently what is said in the question.
in some places being quite rude to people.
the dialogue highlighted yellow is me, the text highlighted blue is someone who is agreeing that the jws did preach this.
Forgot about Malawi. Yeah, you are absolutely right. It was all over the covers of the Awake! and Watchtower mags. The focus shifted dramatically away from 1975.
I would have been a boy crazy young girl at the time. I clearly remember the guy I had a crush on while working in the food service tent
Heh. Nothing to be ashamed about there, for sure. But I'm hoping some other people will remember the speech more clearly.
