After ruminating on it overnight I understand your first comment, Tammy. I have seen for myself that people have a capacity to exhibit more than one character. It is often been said that members of the WTBTS have two personnas: the one dictated by the doctrines and teachings of the Society and the one that is true to themselves. Taken as an average, belief will then have an influence on character but it falls short of defining it. It could also be said in another way that beliefs that are programmed have the capacity to cause people to merely act out of character and therefore has no capacity to define character in an absolute sense.
Nickolas
JoinedPosts by Nickolas
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25
Belief does not define character
by Nickolas inhave you ever wondered how there could be so many pedophiles and other miscreants who are jehovah's witnesses, who claim to be the chosen people of god and who profess and honour christian morals?
you could ask the same question of the roman catholic clergy and the staff of protestant run orphanages.
the vast majority of jehovah's witnesses, catholic priests and protestant orphanage staff are not miscreants, but they share something in common with their despicable bretheren and that is they believe the same thing.
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Anyone here have any experience with the "super-natural"?
by Knowsnothing inand if so, would that prove an existence of evil-spirits (demons)?.
i have heard of a couple of stories of possession, or of jw's talking to spiritists and the spiritists having seen 2 men following the jw, either dressed all in black, or all in white, and very strong looking.
yet, i have never experienced any of it.. another experience that i heard is about a brother whose mom had super-natural strength, and tossed something really heavy.
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Nickolas
I will come back here in ten years time, and stand by everything I said. It happened when I was 10/11...and Im 40 now. Ive not changed my mind regarding what I, my dad, and twin bro and sis saw from then, Im certainly not going to change my mind in another ten years.
My mind will be much different in 10 years, as it was 10 years ago, and to a lesser extent 10 years before that. A mind that stays the same is a mind that is not allowed to grow. I might propose that 40 is still very young and there are things you haven't experienced yet which will change your paradigms in ways you will not understand until they happen to you.
I would find it equally mind blowing to be presented with irrefutable evidence that we are not alone in the universe or with irrefutable evidence that we are alone in the universe. But that is a different conversation entirely from the existence of supernatural life forms on planet Earth.
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Does God speak to you? HOW?
by Quentin inan answer to this question is subjective to the individual an a posteriori experiene.
however, can there be an a priori experence, one that is objective, outside the bounds of personel experiene, or does it remain subjective?
god speaks to me, through many venus, except audible.
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Nickolas
Athieism has absolutely NOTHING to offer people of any value.
I hope you won't mind if I chime in, Lil. Most atheists would not prohibit religious discourse even if it was possible. I am not at all sure that the reciprocal would hold with theists. I have several theist friends and family in my life and we acknowledge that there are real and irreconcilable differences between us and the way we think and we give each other our space. My experience with at least some theists who are not part of my inner circle is that they are incapable of respecting or allowing me my atheism and strive to convince me that I am wrong and they are right. While I acknowledge that their intentions are good I also know that these intentions originate from their holy books which command them accordingly.
But to your comment, atheism offers personal emancipation and a deep sense of peace. It also offers a keener perspective and appreciation of the here and now, since we live our lives on earth as if they are all we will ever have. Those things are extremely valuable, at least to me, and I did not have them when I had faith. I am not saying that my life is better than yours. Not at all. There are some very happy theists in the world. But you should be aware that there are also happy atheists in the world. We don't have horns, we don't mutate into demons during a full moon, we do not perpetrate ghastly deeds because our principles and morals are not inspired by faith and we are not in any way bitter. We just don't believe what you do even if at one time we did, which brings to mind another thing of value. Most of us inherited faith from our parents and understand fully what it is to believe. We shook off that inheritance because we perceived a clearer, more honest reality. It is a reality that most, if not all, theists cannot comprehend and that agnostics can comprehend only in fractions. What I am saying is your faith prevents you from understanding me to the same degree that I understand you. You may honestly say that you have had crises of faith in your life and these have provided you with insights into what it is like to be atheist, but you would be only partly right. All of us who became atheist also had crises of faith, but they are not the same as finally discarding faith and stepping into a much different mindset.
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Belief does not define character
by Nickolas inhave you ever wondered how there could be so many pedophiles and other miscreants who are jehovah's witnesses, who claim to be the chosen people of god and who profess and honour christian morals?
you could ask the same question of the roman catholic clergy and the staff of protestant run orphanages.
the vast majority of jehovah's witnesses, catholic priests and protestant orphanage staff are not miscreants, but they share something in common with their despicable bretheren and that is they believe the same thing.
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Nickolas
Your post brings to mind a quote, JohathanH.
'Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.' (Nobel Prize-winning American physicist) Steven Weinberg
Whether you agree with Weinberg or not, what he is saying is that religious belief can sway people to behave differently than they would otherwise. Shunning is a stellar example.
Best of luck, garyneal. I haven't figured out yet how to reach my wife, either.
Still thinking about what you said, Tammy.
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Belief does not define character
by Nickolas inhave you ever wondered how there could be so many pedophiles and other miscreants who are jehovah's witnesses, who claim to be the chosen people of god and who profess and honour christian morals?
you could ask the same question of the roman catholic clergy and the staff of protestant run orphanages.
the vast majority of jehovah's witnesses, catholic priests and protestant orphanage staff are not miscreants, but they share something in common with their despicable bretheren and that is they believe the same thing.
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Nickolas
That's just too funny, mle. You are a master of satire, old boy.
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Belief does not define character
by Nickolas inhave you ever wondered how there could be so many pedophiles and other miscreants who are jehovah's witnesses, who claim to be the chosen people of god and who profess and honour christian morals?
you could ask the same question of the roman catholic clergy and the staff of protestant run orphanages.
the vast majority of jehovah's witnesses, catholic priests and protestant orphanage staff are not miscreants, but they share something in common with their despicable bretheren and that is they believe the same thing.
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Nickolas
Have you ever wondered how there could be so many pedophiles and other miscreants who are Jehovah's Witnesses, who claim to be the chosen People of God and who profess and honour Christian morals? You could ask the same question of the Roman Catholic clergy and the staff of Protestant run orphanages. The vast majority of Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholic priests and Protestant orphanage staff are not miscreants, but they share something in common with their despicable bretheren and that is they believe the same thing. The miscreant Jehovah's Witness is just as dedicated to his beliefs as the non-miscreant Jehovah's Witness. And I'm sure there are atheist miscreants out there, too.
What a person believes influences behaviour but what a person believes does not define his or her character. The nature of prejudice is such that all people who are identified with a different group are held in contempt, even those who are otherwise good and honourable people.
Agree or disagree. My hide is thick.
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Anyone here have any experience with the "super-natural"?
by Knowsnothing inand if so, would that prove an existence of evil-spirits (demons)?.
i have heard of a couple of stories of possession, or of jw's talking to spiritists and the spiritists having seen 2 men following the jw, either dressed all in black, or all in white, and very strong looking.
yet, i have never experienced any of it.. another experience that i heard is about a brother whose mom had super-natural strength, and tossed something really heavy.
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Nickolas
"Religion as it is practiced in Bali is a composite belief system that embraces not only theology, philosophy, and mythology, but ancestor worship, animism and magic. It pervades nearly every aspect of traditional life. Caste is observed, though less strictly than in India."
Interesting religion, doofdaddy. are you an adherent?
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Anyone here have any experience with the "super-natural"?
by Knowsnothing inand if so, would that prove an existence of evil-spirits (demons)?.
i have heard of a couple of stories of possession, or of jw's talking to spiritists and the spiritists having seen 2 men following the jw, either dressed all in black, or all in white, and very strong looking.
yet, i have never experienced any of it.. another experience that i heard is about a brother whose mom had super-natural strength, and tossed something really heavy.
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Nickolas
Where would you like me to begin? First thing that ever happened to me was when my futon begin to shake while I sat upon it. I even got off of it and held my hand on top of it while it shook. I knew it was a spirit, for how could you believe in GOD and not believe in demons or otherwise. I took it as a wake-up call from GOD or just a demon trying to bring me fear. It did shake me up a bit so that I chose to close the door to the room it occured in. I have numorous accounts, that was just the beginning.......
I think you experienced this thing, estephan, but you must agree that it was an entirely personal experience, or was there someone on the futon with you?
My life is FULL of joy and bliss Nicko. Currently lying on a beach in Bali waiting on a call from a Hindu priest who will perform a sacred ceremony on behalf of me for my deceased mother. He also laughs a lot! Are you an expert on Balinese animism ? Or just more flippant comments...
It sounds wonderful, doofdaddy. No, I can't say I have even heard of Balinese animism, but I will read up on it, thanks.
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189
Does God speak to you? HOW?
by Quentin inan answer to this question is subjective to the individual an a posteriori experiene.
however, can there be an a priori experence, one that is objective, outside the bounds of personel experiene, or does it remain subjective?
god speaks to me, through many venus, except audible.
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Nickolas
I appreciate it when Shelby's posts something directed at me because it is always generous and sincere, as much as I do not understand or see things as she does. I also don't see her making ad hominem attacks against me or other atheists, in spite of receiving them on a regular basis. There are few, if any, more interesting people on this board.
I'm an atheist but I am still interested in what theists have to say, if only to understand why they perceive things the way they do. While there are good, solid and logical arguments to be made against the existence of God the argument from personal experience is the most difficult to defeat, because personal experience is by far the most convincing to those who have had one. Anyone knowledgeable about psychology can explain the phenomenon of hearing voices, but will generally be unable to convince the individual hearing them that they are not real. That is because perception (whether yours or mine) is reality and, in effect, the voices are real.
Why is there so much disrespect on this board?
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114
Anyone here have any experience with the "super-natural"?
by Knowsnothing inand if so, would that prove an existence of evil-spirits (demons)?.
i have heard of a couple of stories of possession, or of jw's talking to spiritists and the spiritists having seen 2 men following the jw, either dressed all in black, or all in white, and very strong looking.
yet, i have never experienced any of it.. another experience that i heard is about a brother whose mom had super-natural strength, and tossed something really heavy.
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Nickolas
Well, wasblind, that's one supernatural experience I will not even try to debunk.