Posts by Nickolas

68

As of today, I will no longer be one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

by Knowsnothing in

i spoke with my mother, told her everything, my doubts, my fears, my sins.

it came rushing out.

my mother is devastated.

Nickolas

As far as the "what other organization" argument, a valid question, "when has there ever been an organization that has remained faithful?" Technically, a christian ought to be prepared to be a christian all alone and stand up against a church like WT with an authoritarian clergy like the GB that has a consistent history of false prophecy. Jesus never said that the narrow and cramped road would be followed by one "organization", it says "few". That means individuals would be approved, not people that were being misled by arrogant self-aggrandizing Watchtower zealots. The head of the man is Christ, not some self-promoting printing corporation. This dude is just a Watchtower pawn that eagerly whitewashes over crumbling JW 19th century theology.

Bravo, Billy. One of the best left hooks I've read. Added to my arsenal.

25

Abiogenesis - Is it Faith?

by cantleave in

jw
friends

when does a scientific perspective become as tenuous as a religious one?.

light the blue touch paper and stand well back............... i know there are some historic threads but it would be interesting see the views of the current (overlapping) generation of jwners.. btw just leaving the office be back in about an hour.

.

Nickolas

Hey guys. Ever notice how often the same people get involved with a certain genre of thread?

Anyone like me who subscribes to the Theory of Evolution and who has read up-to-date material on it is more and more convinced, but I don't think it has been proven in the accepted sense of the word. But we're talking about abiogeneis, and that's an entirely different subject. Abiogenesis has not been duplicated in the laboratory, which would help constitute a solid proof for evolution, even if it is a different subject. Abiogenesis may never be duplicated in the laboratory. Life as we can observe it is only possible because the planet earth is part of a solar system that supports life. The process required to generate self-replicating protein molecules required the specific conditions set up by the solar system as it stabilised, conditions that have long disappeared. Whether or not those conditions can be ascertained and then duplicated in the laboratory is quite rightly described as a longshot. If the odds of abiogenesis happening are very, very long indeed, like one in a billion or one in ten billion there would still be between 5 and 50 planets in the Milky Way galaxy on which it will have happened, including here. And finding the recipe would be a great challenge.

Is it faith? No. It's credible based on the anthropic principle and credible evidence from Hubble. Show me something more credible than abiogenesis and I will drop it into the trash and move on.

122

Refuting the ARGUMENT BY DESIGN.

by nicolaou in

it's tiresome and it doesn't add up but it's one of the most popular arguments for god's existence, "the argument by design.

" jehovah's witnesses and other believers point out a wonder of nature like the eye and compare it to a 'lesser' mechanical wonder of human design like a camera.

the supposed conclusion is that this natural wonder is evidence of creation by a powerful designer; god.. .

Nickolas

You know, I think it is definitely time to pass around the bottle of scotch. A toast to you all.

talk to you on the next thread. It's been fun.

122

Refuting the ARGUMENT BY DESIGN.

by nicolaou in

it's tiresome and it doesn't add up but it's one of the most popular arguments for god's existence, "the argument by design.

" jehovah's witnesses and other believers point out a wonder of nature like the eye and compare it to a 'lesser' mechanical wonder of human design like a camera.

the supposed conclusion is that this natural wonder is evidence of creation by a powerful designer; god.. .

Nickolas

It seems to me and this could be just my circle of people I know, that more religious people read athiest books and writings than the other wat around.

I think you're right there, Paul. Maybe that's why more theists become atheists than the other way around, because the honest ones are more inclined to test their faith, whereas most atheists I know have pretty much made up their minds. Could it be that theists in general have a more open mind than atheists in general? I'll think on that while I get ready for dinner.

Later.

122

Refuting the ARGUMENT BY DESIGN.

by nicolaou in

it's tiresome and it doesn't add up but it's one of the most popular arguments for god's existence, "the argument by design.

" jehovah's witnesses and other believers point out a wonder of nature like the eye and compare it to a 'lesser' mechanical wonder of human design like a camera.

the supposed conclusion is that this natural wonder is evidence of creation by a powerful designer; god.. .

Nickolas

Isn't it all philosophy, though? Other ologies don't require belief at all. You don't have to believe in biology to become a biologist. Same with chemistry, although the earliest form of chemistry, alchemy, did. Another is astronomy and, again, it finds its roots in astrology, which was a study that also required belief, as did alchemy, in something irrational. You don't have to believe in myths to study mythology - it is usually a given that you do not - just as you don't need to believe the fantasies written by J. R. R. Tolkien in order to become expert in them. I appreciate that there will inevitably be atheist theologians, but are there any theologians who were atheist when they set out to become theologians? I would guess not, per your answer above. I studied and got my HBScF because I was in love with the forest. In order to find out as much as you can about God, it helps a great deal if you love Him first. Why else would you bother?

An observation, though. I don't know anyone who became a graduate forester who decided afterward that they don't love the forest.

122

Refuting the ARGUMENT BY DESIGN.

by nicolaou in

it's tiresome and it doesn't add up but it's one of the most popular arguments for god's existence, "the argument by design.

" jehovah's witnesses and other believers point out a wonder of nature like the eye and compare it to a 'lesser' mechanical wonder of human design like a camera.

the supposed conclusion is that this natural wonder is evidence of creation by a powerful designer; god.. .

Nickolas

If I recall correctly from something you wrote in another thread, Paul, you're studying toward a degree in theology, are you not? A question I've always wanted to ask is does one need to believe in God in order to become a theologian?

EDIT:

Be honest though Rico is an awesome name for Richard Dawkins :)

Absolutely. I watched one of his earliest video productions (The Blind Watchmaker, 1987) just this past week and I had to chuckle that he was a young, long haired, lean maverick back then. Rico is perfect.

122

Refuting the ARGUMENT BY DESIGN.

by nicolaou in

it's tiresome and it doesn't add up but it's one of the most popular arguments for god's existence, "the argument by design.

" jehovah's witnesses and other believers point out a wonder of nature like the eye and compare it to a 'lesser' mechanical wonder of human design like a camera.

the supposed conclusion is that this natural wonder is evidence of creation by a powerful designer; god.. .

Nickolas

Rico should stick with evolutionary biology and leave theology to those that actually have a grasp of it.

And I will agree to disagree, too. One need not be a theologian to have an opinion about the existence or non-existence of god, in particular when theology has a way of insinutating itself upon so many areas, in particular evolutionary biology. However, I can see your point, as much as I may not agree with it. Let us say I agree with it as much as I might agree with confining theologians to commenting on god and nothing else. If theologians would agree to that restriction, however, I might be prepared to think otherwise. At least the debate on what to teach our children in school about the origin of life would be moot.

122

Refuting the ARGUMENT BY DESIGN.

by nicolaou in

it's tiresome and it doesn't add up but it's one of the most popular arguments for god's existence, "the argument by design.

" jehovah's witnesses and other believers point out a wonder of nature like the eye and compare it to a 'lesser' mechanical wonder of human design like a camera.

the supposed conclusion is that this natural wonder is evidence of creation by a powerful designer; god.. .

Nickolas

Ah, a Mac. Different setup, Tammy, obviously. PC's use ascii codes, Mac doesn't. There will be a way to do it, I just don't know how. Sorry.

On topic, back to Dawkins (who always expresses the matter far better than I can).

"I am continually astonished by those theists who, far from having their consciousness raised in the way that I propose, seem to rejoice in natural selection as 'God's way of achieving his creation'. They note that evolution by natural selection would be a very easy and neat way to achieve a world full of life. God wouldn't need to do anything at all! Peter Atkins, in the book just mentioned*, takes this line of thought to a sensibly godless conclusion when he postulates a hypothetically lazy God who tries to get away with as little as possible in order to make a universe containing life. Atkins's lazy God is even lazier than the deist God of the eighteenth-century Enlightenment: deus otiosus - literally God at leisure, unoccupied, unemployed, superfluous, useless. Step by step, Atkins succeeds in reducing the amount of work the lazy God has to do until he finally ends up doing nothing at all: he might as well not bother to exist. My memory vividly hears Woody Allen's perceptive whine: 'If it turns out that there is a God, I don't think that he's evil. But the worst that you can say about him is that basically he's an underachiever.' "

* Creation Revisited

122

Refuting the ARGUMENT BY DESIGN.

by nicolaou in

it's tiresome and it doesn't add up but it's one of the most popular arguments for god's existence, "the argument by design.

" jehovah's witnesses and other believers point out a wonder of nature like the eye and compare it to a 'lesser' mechanical wonder of human design like a camera.

the supposed conclusion is that this natural wonder is evidence of creation by a powerful designer; god.. .

Nickolas

Tammy, if you want to make an eks on your keyboard, even when you don't have an eks key, all you need to do is hold down the Alt key, key in the numerical sequence "120" (without the quotes) then let go of the Alt key and you end up with x.

Good night.

122

Refuting the ARGUMENT BY DESIGN.

by nicolaou in

it's tiresome and it doesn't add up but it's one of the most popular arguments for god's existence, "the argument by design.

" jehovah's witnesses and other believers point out a wonder of nature like the eye and compare it to a 'lesser' mechanical wonder of human design like a camera.

the supposed conclusion is that this natural wonder is evidence of creation by a powerful designer; god.. .

Nickolas

Tammy, do you need someone to buy you a new keyboard?

Really saying goodnight, this time.