Nickolas

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Posts by Nickolas

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  14

  INTIMIDATION by threat

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what would happen if somebody pointed a gun at you and told you what to do?.

  an implied threat would motivate almost every person to do as they were told.. what about in a religious context?

  what if a "gun" were pointed at members of a religion?.

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  Nickolas

  One of the worst things George Lucas ever did was remaster and re-release Star Wars IV.

  I know a married couple who were each the children of Congregation Elders and who secretly celebrate Christmas but who can quickly remove all traces of this when the grandparents come to visit. They are compelled to live like Bootleggers hiding a still from Federal agents!!

  Imagine, if you will, the stress on the kids! Imagine the distorted sense of loyalty being taught! Imagine what values are at conflict and the psychological destruction being wrought!!

  What can you say, what can you do that could possibly solve this horrifying Sophies Choice for them??

  Who is responsible for whom in this context? It's kind of a rhetorical question but ultimately the parents are responsible to their children. They alone bear responsibility for the distorted sense of loyalty and psychological damage wrought by their example, precisely because it is their example. What they're teaching their kids is duplicity. The opposite end of the truth spectrum. If they're being sucked down the black hole of The Watchtower they're dragging their kids down with them. Unless you accept they have a legitimate mitigating circumstance that puts their own welfare above that of their children, you cannot accept their behaviour as appropriate. Is it really a Sophie's Choice? I enjoyed that movie. But I think if Sophie could have grabbed hold of her two children and escaped the Nazi death camp to shiver and subsist for years in the surrounding woods it is what she would have done in a heartbeat, rather than sacrifice one of them to save the other. These parents are sacrificing all of their children and saving none.
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  226

  The Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses (AAWA) [WARNING]

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  uncensored discussions and information for anyone interested in the advocates for awareness of watchtower abuses or 'aawa' http://aawa.co/ (previously known as "the association of anti-watchtower activists http://jwactivists.org/) and how it's handled and responded to privacy issues and put people at risk:.

  aawa is here!!

  (the association of anti-watchtower activists)an invitation to a new effort- aawawhy when i logged onto aawa did it go to facebook ?in regards to aawaaawa - every generation needs a new revolution - thomas jeffersonnotice how the introduction of the aawa has brought out the loonies lately?will aawa become another cult?

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  Nickolas

  The economy was in its third year of recession when I graduated university. 1975, and jobs were scarce. My first was as a logger in a remote camp more than 200 miles northwest of the city. Five nights in the bush, home on weekends. As it happens I was at the time studying to become a Jehovah's Witness. A young man about my age, who I had seen and heard on the dais directing traffic at that summer's district convention, showed up as the new camp clerk. We hadn't met formally. He was being introduced to the men at a Wednesday evening meeting in the mess hall by the camp foreman and I was delighted and encouraged to catch sight of him once again. Here was "a good association", someone with whom I could commiserate and I was very much looking forward to presenting myself to him one on one after the meeting. He was asked by the foreman to say a few words. He was articulate but what came out of his mouth was unexpected, at least by me. He used derivatives of the word fuck several times - here as a noun, there an adjective, there an adverb - apparently to appear tough and gritty in a likewise environment. Each time he used the word I felt a whack, like an electric shock. After dinner I knocked on the door of his room. He opened it, smiled broadly, extended his hand and said he was glad to meet me. When I told him that we had already met, and where, the blood drained from his face. The next week he was gone.

  There is a difference between privacy and anonymity. This is a conversation about being true to the person you are no matter where you are. It goes without saying that there are multiple facets to our personalities that we manifest under different contexts, Mickey mouse, but if how you act in front of one audience would cause you embarrassment if witnessed by someone from another audience then you need to take stock of who you really are. Your children should not be shocked by the business persona they might see in the boardroom any more than your associates should be taken aback to see how you conduct yourself as a father.

  And putting words in someone's mouth, ballistic, says more about you than about the person you're misrepresenting.
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  226

  The Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses (AAWA) [WARNING]

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  uncensored discussions and information for anyone interested in the advocates for awareness of watchtower abuses or 'aawa' http://aawa.co/ (previously known as "the association of anti-watchtower activists http://jwactivists.org/) and how it's handled and responded to privacy issues and put people at risk:.

  aawa is here!!

  (the association of anti-watchtower activists)an invitation to a new effort- aawawhy when i logged onto aawa did it go to facebook ?in regards to aawaaawa - every generation needs a new revolution - thomas jeffersonnotice how the introduction of the aawa has brought out the loonies lately?will aawa become another cult?

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  Nickolas

  I couldn't disagree more. Your assumptions are that people only have one online persona, whereas they have many just as we do in real life.

  I have one set of jokes I tell to my mates. I have another set I will tell my mother, and I have one special joke saved up up the company of vicars.

  In real life, we are different things to different people. "When in Rome".

  Anonymity is an illusion. Believing you can be anonymously polymorphus on the internet or in real life is a delusion. Both nouns are perfectly at home in the present context. How difficult it must be to assume different personalities because you feel a need to represent yourself according to the prejudices of your audience. Which personality is actually you? If you act one way when in the presense of a certain person or group but act in another way in the presense of another, how can anyone be sure who you really are? Who are you being now?
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  226

  The Advocates for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses (AAWA) [WARNING]

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  uncensored discussions and information for anyone interested in the advocates for awareness of watchtower abuses or 'aawa' http://aawa.co/ (previously known as "the association of anti-watchtower activists http://jwactivists.org/) and how it's handled and responded to privacy issues and put people at risk:.

  aawa is here!!

  (the association of anti-watchtower activists)an invitation to a new effort- aawawhy when i logged onto aawa did it go to facebook ?in regards to aawaaawa - every generation needs a new revolution - thomas jeffersonnotice how the introduction of the aawa has brought out the loonies lately?will aawa become another cult?

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  Nickolas

  Those on Facebook who value their privacy are contradictions onto themselves. That exhibitionism and anonymity can coexist is at best naiive, more exactly oxymoronic. The internet is forever. Whatever you issue from your computer is indelible and, for those who have taken an interest, will stay that way well beyond your own lifetime. None of us should be surprised if some day what we have had to say is presented back to us. All it takes is for someone to find it and make the association.

  At first blush (for me) the AAWA seems a well meaning but poorly conceived strategic attempt to undermine the WTBTS. How unfortunate and incompetent to have had its credibility badly mauled so soon out of the gate. An organisation that destroys those who support it, even if inadvertently, cannot expect to prevail. It is apparent the AAWA needs to regroup, decide if they can undo the damage they have done to people (and, heartless as this will sound, more importantly to the struggle against Watchtower totalitarianism) or accept failure, learn from their mistake, back off and reinvent themselves under another banner. This one's already tattered.
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  36

  What's the incentive for becoming a JW now? July 15th 2013 Watchtower

  by dazed but not confused in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

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  Nickolas

  Isn't it sad people actually believe the story at all? It breaks my heart to see people pretending that they're happy in the Watchtower when they're confidentially on Prozac - just a temporary depression, you understand. The Watchtower changes its story so often that you've just got to see the fallacy if you've been around long enough, but people still don't see it because they're afraid to. Wilful blindness. Very sad. The incentive for becoming a JW now? The same incentive for becoming a meth addict. You'll feel really good for awhile. The best you've ever felt in your life. And then it will very slowly rot out your brain and you'll get to die poor and miserable.
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  31

  Are you prepared to apologise even when it is not you fault?

  by usualusername in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  are you prepared to apologise even when it is not you fault?.

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  uun .

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  Nickolas

  There are lots of victims. They can stay victims or they can move on and be happy for the rest of their lives. Their choice.
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  14

  Great arguments, play devils advocate for me

  by logical1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  pretend you're a faithful witness and devils advocate these arguments for me to help fine tune them:.

  fallacy of perfection:.

  "there will be no more sickness and death in the new earth...".

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  Nickolas

  You simply have to eliminate their resistance to talk to apostates.

  No, that's not it. Apostates are no less credible than those who never bought into the nonsense in the first place, but the latter aren't listened to either. The difference is they aren't automatically shunned. It makes no matter. If one is delivering a message someone else doesn't want to hear it is not heard. Full stop. Like that Emerson quote, "Who you are speaks so loudly I can't hear what you're saying." If you are not In The Truth you are not like them and as a consequence you will not ever be granted an unfiltered listening. Xenophobia is basic defense training for a Jehovah's Witness. Simply is not a word I would have used in the context of opening the eyes of a devout Jehovah's Witness to the reality I perceive. Not saying what I perceive is superior only that there is no simple approach to getting those indoctrinated by the Watchtower to see things in a different light, at least not one I have found after a few decades of trying. If you've got a simple solution you should market it. People who are desperate to get their loved ones out but who can't find a way would beat a path to your door.
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  14

  Great arguments, play devils advocate for me

  by logical1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  pretend you're a faithful witness and devils advocate these arguments for me to help fine tune them:.

  fallacy of perfection:.

  "there will be no more sickness and death in the new earth...".

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  Nickolas

  My first time in Paris a long time ago I encountered an American tourist in a sidewalk cafe. He was sitting at the next table with a woman, I assume his wife. He ordered a cheese sandwich. When the waiter looked at him kinda stunned the man repeated himself. When the waiter replied in French while shaking his head the man raised his voice and said "Cheese sandwich!". When the waiter just stared at him the man yelled "I JUST WANT A GODDAM CHEESE SANDWICH!"

  Moral of the story, if they are incapable of interpreting what you are saying, you're not going to get through no matter how hard you try. In fact, the harder you try the less you will get through. There needs first to be an intellectual opening and for that you are better off planting a seed of doubt rather than presenting a slam dunk argument for which the automatic response will be defensive. Closing one's mind to an onslaught of logic is part of the indoctrination. And the Watchtower is sadly very effective at that.

  If, however, you discover the ultimate argument that is so subtly devastating as to shock one Jehovah's Witness after another into reality I will gladly donate $1000 to your bronze statue.
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  14

  Great arguments, play devils advocate for me

  by logical1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  pretend you're a faithful witness and devils advocate these arguments for me to help fine tune them:.

  fallacy of perfection:.

  "there will be no more sickness and death in the new earth...".

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  Nickolas

  My high school biology teacher (MSc) turned beet red when his lecture on Darwinian evolution was met by ingratiating smirks and guffaws from a couple of religious 16-year-olds, but he knew well enough to let it go. It comes down to fundamentalism and faith. Those (for example) who believe the Noah story is literally true will be entirely unmoved by overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary. And there are those who will agree with your logic but who will draw a line in the sand when what you have to say butts up against their cherished beliefs (as in, "of course life evolved, but don't try to tell me it didn't happen intelligently.") There are many such folk in here. Where is your own line?

  I enjoyed your discourse but you are tilting at windmills, or at best preaching to the choir if I may be allowed to mix metaphors. Even the strongest evidence based arguments bounce harmlessly off cognitive dissonance. A priori arguments, no matter how logical, don't stand a chance. A faithful witness will listen to what you have to say and perhaps think you earnest but pitifully deceived. You are blind. You just don't get it. You are doomed. How sad. Smirk. Guffaw.
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  61

  What do you believe about the bible?

  by bethelyellowdollarbag in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm interested in how we all view the bible?.

  let me start by offering three different options:.

  a.. a book that at best may have cultural or historical interest but that is it.. b.. a divinely inspired guide that i consult to make important life choices.

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  Nickolas

  I've read it completely at least twice. Piecemeal over an extended period interrupted by reading it cover to cover. It's a thick, cumbersome and convoluted book. A work of fiction. Bloody awful fiction at that, and the leading character is appalling. Quoting Dawkins, jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. The rest just bad supernatural scribble that over the two past milleniae has rained down some really horrible stuff by people in power who interpreted the book in their own particular way. The sooner Yahweh gets relegated to the scrap gods pile the better.