Posts by jay88

22

What is Your Experience with Non-Christian Religions and Philosophy ONLY?

by MrDarkKnight in

i have been slow to start a thread because i wanted to see what topics were already being discussed.

having left wt i have a disdain for organized christian religion at the moment.

i am interested in your experience, research or observations about non-christian religions and philosophy only.

jay88

What have you discovered in your journey thus far?

46

reading a life time of WT literatrash = College education

by Free!! in

or at least that's what my super jw ex-roommate told me when i try to have an adult discussion w her about the importance of a higher education... according to her (a girl that never finished hs because it was not necessary) she has a better education than any college graduate because the jehovah has used the borg literatrash to teach her many many important things.... she says her knowledge of the "truth" is the equivalent of my 4 years of college education..... .

.

is there a cure for stupid???!!

jay88

Very informative thread,

Nice.

54

Growing up a Jehovah's Witness - New Video

by jwfacts in

i have put together a video - growing up a jehovah's witness 1960 -2010. it aims to show the things a witnesses would be taught as they age over those decades.

it is 15 minutes long.

this is my first attempt at a video and it took a while to work out how to use final cut, so please feel free to make suggestions if anything should be changed.

jay88

Well done!

jay,

59

How important are God and Jesus to you?

by Nickolas in

i ask this question because it goes to:.

- how disposed to objectively considering contrarian evidence you are, and.

- how much i might be messing with your life and happiness by helping you see things the way i do.. i read the posts of many people on this board who are apparently happy, even deliriously happy, with their theism.

jay88

As a folk hero Jesus is quite alright as a Savior,hmmmmm not that important.

81

Belief in God: What were the difficult aspects and questions you had.

by designs in

two main one's for me were god being capricious and serendipitous..

jay88

I am a non-believer, but I am not an atheist. Atheism is a non-position postition which doesn't make sense to me.

81

Belief in God: What were the difficult aspects and questions you had.

by designs in

two main one's for me were god being capricious and serendipitous..

jay88

I was reading the comments so far,....and I too was wondering what the cut-off point would be in regards to pondering about "god", at what point does it become "mental masturbation as EP stated?

43

I have a question on the Circuit Accounts Scam thread

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

i didn't want it to get buried and i'd really like to know.. so i knew pretty much what he was saying was true, but what i don't get is how the creative accounting works.. i mean you have to show expenses on the ledger - and i mean real expenses, like the co/do expenses along with receipts.. you have actual costs for the power coming into the building.

the paper supplies and cleaning supplies.

the vacuum cleaners and mops and other sundry items, and you have to have receipts for all that.. i also know that when you made a "donation" it was off the books at the circuit level as far as accounts were concerned.. but how is money not being accounted for?.

jay88

oppostate - jay88 wrote: "Russel started a series of corporations. There were 50 stockholders who could vote. This number never changed. Russel gave away "stock" in exchange for contributions but that stock was not voting stock. He later got most of that back anyway."

.......................................................

I knew it was suspect, but still worth considering. Like I mentioned in the post is was from a particular poster.

jay,

43

I have a question on the Circuit Accounts Scam thread

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

i didn't want it to get buried and i'd really like to know.. so i knew pretty much what he was saying was true, but what i don't get is how the creative accounting works.. i mean you have to show expenses on the ledger - and i mean real expenses, like the co/do expenses along with receipts.. you have actual costs for the power coming into the building.

the paper supplies and cleaning supplies.

the vacuum cleaners and mops and other sundry items, and you have to have receipts for all that.. i also know that when you made a "donation" it was off the books at the circuit level as far as accounts were concerned.. but how is money not being accounted for?.

jay88

Taken fromlifeisgood-What is the Watchtower Borg. Post?

I researched all this with some colleagues back in the 90s. You might want to sit down and hold onto something before you start reading this.

Russel started a series of corporations. There were 50 stockholders who could vote. This number never changed. Russel gave away "stock" in exchange for contributions but that stock was not voting stock. He later got most of that back anyway.

The New York chapter also started a bunch of corporations, but all of those are subsidiary to Russel's corporations. The WTBTS now has hundreds of interlocking, dependent corporations, trying to trace ownership through that mess is not easy. They did this for a reason.

The governing body members do not own stock and cannot vote the stock. They own NOTHING.

The stock passed to whoever the original stockholders left their shares to when they died. This has happened several times since the early days.

Russel was a master scam artist. As was Rutherford, as was Knorr.

The WTBTS on many occassions has waived the spiritual requirements and brought people in to Bethel because of a person possessing skills that were required.

Back in the early 90s a 'brother' came into the truth and was accepted to Bethel and was making key decisions in a very short period of time. I think it was less than one year from first studying to being at Bethel. This man prior to this was one of the top real estate professionals in New York city. Look at the real estate transactions by the WTBTS in New York since then. They have made billions of dollars in profits because of this real estate trading. Now, no one is going to tell me that a bunch of elderly people with no business background, most of them were janitors, made all these deals on their own. There is no way that happened.

There are so many scams to cheat people out of money. Remember the assembly parking ticket scam? They tell the convention center facility managers that parking will be free, then they sell "parking tickets" at the kindgdom hall. They did this because if they charge for parking at the facility, they have to share that money with the convention center. I know for a fact that this is a scam because the Augusta Ga. convention center manager forbid JWs from every renting his facilities again because of this theft. I worked their part time at the time. Then came the mandatory vountary contribtion for literature. When you pick up literature you have to make a contribution to cover it, but then when you place the literature you have to ask for a contribution which you also put in the donation box. Any time a Kingdom Hall gets built the local congregation is on the hook for all the money plus interest. Assemblies are a money making opportunity because the WTBTS representatives guilt the attendees into giving donations by lying about the finances of the assembly on the morning of the last day. But they leave out the donations of the last day in the numbers they report to the attendees.

Now, here is the thing that really makes you want to scream. They tell elderly JWs to donate their assets to the WTBTS in their wills.

Every Witness is told at least twice a year to set a goal on how much they will donate per month to the local congregation. Any excess is sent by the local congregation to the WTBTS in New York.

Now, here is what most JWs do not know. The WTBTS pretends that they are barely making it. Some colleagues and I researched this in the early 90s, and if you have kept up with the real estate trading in New York since then, the WTBTS has a net worth of over 100 million dollars. I usually say "tens of millions" because most people find this number shocking. The WTBTS has a very diversified investment portfolio. They own land, buildings (which produce income through rents), antique automobiles, stocks, bonds, commodities, artwork, jewelry, precious metals, rare coins, you name it, they own it.

Now, here is what most JWs do not understand. The people who control this wealth are not the governing body. You have to go back to the original 50 stock holders. It is the group of people that owns this original stock today that controls the assets. I don't have the research artifacts any more, I lost interest in the WTBTS back in the 90s and all that research was on a computer that I later sold, but this is not that hard to figure out.

The governing body members are fools. Some know that they are liars and some don't know. But, they are still fools. Some of them have deluded themselves into believing that they really do speak for God, some of them know that this is nonsense. But, the owners of the stock and the lawyers call the shots. I don't know if the governing body knows that these people exist or not. They have to know that someone besides them owns the stock and has the voting rights.

Here is why I know that "spiritual" men are not behind this. I know some spiritual people. I never knew any JW who was a spiritual person. A truly spiritual person does not have to tell you that they are spiritual. You know that they are. A truly spiritual person would never do any of the for profit things that the WTBTS does. Never. I followed the spiritual path for a while but I realized that I can never be like any of these spiritual people. I'm not sure why exactly. They have something inside them that I could never have.

Also, there is something about the WTBTS' literature that is very profound. I have read all of their literature that I could find with an open mind. Before the internet I was a subscriber to the book lists of about fifty or so large used book resellers. Now, these same book sellers are on Amazon and sites like that but before the internet they would mail you their book lists every couple of weeks or so. Or, you could tell them to let you know if they found a certain book.

I have a cousin who is not a Witness and never had an interest in them but for some reason he had all of the studies in the scriptures and other historic JW books. I think my grandfather had the studies in the scriptures and left them to my cousin. My cousin lived with my grandparents.

Now, I am not trying to brag here, just saying what happened. When I was in the 7th grade a teacher taught many of us how to speed read. When I was researching the WTBTS and Bible Students literature I read over a thousand watchtower magazines and I read every book of theirs that I could find.

And this is what I figured out. You better sit down. The tone of voice that comes from their literature is evil. And it is propaganda. Some of the highest quality propaganda that you can find anywhere. On a level of Hitler and the NAZIs. About tone of voice. Whenever you read a book, you sense the writer's tone of voice. Some writers are good enough that they can establish the tone of voice on purpose. Others have a single tone of voice that comes through in everything they right.

The literature of the WTBTS ALL has the same evil tone of voice. Now, when you read their literature for true understanding you have to forget the pretty pictures of the happy people in paradise. You have to forget that these are "Christian" authors. And just pretend that you found a magazine or a book with the cover ripped off and you have no idea who wrote it. And listen to the tone of voice.

This literature talks to the reader like the reader is some kind of idiot, the literature is very condescending and insulting. The reader is assumed to be dishonest. The reader is assumed to probably die at Armageddon anyway if they don't do exactly as they are told.

This literature makes my skin crawl because I know what is going on. There is someone or something behind the authorship that we never get to see. No, not Satan. No, not the demons. I don't know exactly how to explain this. One thing I do know. The authors of this literature know that this is a scam. They know that it is propaganda. The WTBTS literature is propaganda on a level of quality of the writings and speeches of Hitler and the NAZIs. This is world class propaganda. I don't think for a second that the governing body are smart enough to produce such world class propaganda. But, someone involved in their literature production is smart enough, and evil enough and a good enough propagandist.

I am sorry but I don't know the precise technical terms to explain this more scientifically.

If you have the time take a cross section of their books that span a long period of time, and read them all, then you will see the same disrespectful, dishonest, condescending tone of voice in all their books.

So, master propagandists who control a huge networth and the goal of everything that they do is to grow the membership in order to grow the rate of increase of the net worth are in charge and I do not believe that this is the governing body. The governing body is a bunch of elderly janitors.

........................................

I don't know how true any of this is, but it is worth considering.

81

Why I didnt left JW an dont plan to do so

by Lazarus in

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in another thread i wrote: i didn't left the jw's and don't plan to do so.

jay88

Taken from Blondies Post of April 15, 2011 WT(Study Edition)pg.16

12. (a) Why should we do research? (b) Explain

how a person could do such research.

12 Do research. “The plans of the diligent

one surely make for advantage,” wrote Solomon,

“but everyone that is hasty surely

heads for want.” (Prov. 21:5) For example,

are you considering a business proposal? Do

not let emotion rule. Gather all the relevant

facts, seek the counsel of those familiar

with such things, and determine what Bible

principles have a bearing on the matter.

(Prov. 20:18) To organize your research, prepare

two lists—one detailing the benefits,

the other the liabilities. Before you make

a decision, “calculate the expense.” (Luke 14:28)

Consider the potential impact that your

decision will have not only on your financial

health but also on your spiritual well-being.

It takes time and effort to do research. But by

doing so, you may avoid making hasty decisions

that lead to unnecessary anxiety.

COMMENTS

Research outside WTS publications? Advice from non-jws?

Business proposal—not with a jw because there is no ability to sue per the WTS.

So what does the WTS mean—no working on meeting nights…brothers who have…?

Hasty decisions—baptisms at 6 years old?

..................................................................................................................

Is it you talking or the WT(Study Edition)?

jay,

7

What do you guy's think of David Icke

by Star tiger in

jw
friends

.

i watched all of this guys youtube seminar, and although the reptilian thing was a bit mad, the whole illuminati thing appeared to worthy of a bit more scrutiny, any comments would be welcome, it seemed to be as valid as any biblical point of view!.

star tiger.

jay88

The prerequiste to David Icke is reading Revelation Climax at hand,..like mixing drugs and Alcohol