Dan take care of yourself and family. I'm so glad you have Ding as a friend from this board. He seems like a loyal friend.
Hope your wife is recovering well and that you and your children are okay.
Curtains
JoinedPosts by Curtains
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180
Brotherdan seems like he really DID leave
by sabastious inhe was an interesting presence on this board.
he had integral knowledge about bethel and the like.
i am an emotional guy too so i can kind of relate to why he left.. but, you gotta get thick skin on the forum.
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Non-evidence reasons why people embrace Evolution.
by hooberus inevolutionists always claim that the reason why they believe in evolution and reject creation is due to "evidence".
they frequently use the opposite term "no evidence" in relation to any type of intelligent design, or creation, (and especially to genesis creation and flood history !).
their advocated beliefs always tend to include whatever is necessary to believe in to intellectually "explain" the existence of the universe, world, and its creatures without needing god).
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Curtains
I'm delighted to suggest another non-evidence reason to embrace evolution - the "neanderthal/leak between species" investigation. Evolutionary science will remain open on the question of whether or not there was interbreeding between homo neanderthalis and homo sapiens until there is more factual proof - for example from the fossil record and from further experimentation on genes which will contine to be refined and hotly debated amongst scientists. Meanwhile we are filled with wonder and awe at imagining viruses and bacteria (among other things) flitting between the two groups and producing unconscious effects.
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Introduction
by dontplaceliterature inbefore i begin my introductory post, i would like to mention that a number of my initial comments here may be viewed by several of you as watchtower apologist or as sympathetic to the views of the jehovahs witnesses.
the last thing i want to do is incite a flame war regarding my legitimacy or intentions in joining this forum.
mostly, i would describe myself as on the fence.
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Curtains
hi don'tplaceliterture welcome - I'll take up one point you mentioned
Obviously, there is a TON of angry emotion swirling around this board, and that is to its detriment. While I personally have no “axe to grind” with The Society, its abundantly apparent that a lot of individuals here do. Surely, most have a good reason for their feelings, and I would never question that. However I’m not sure it is always expressed well, and many of the angry accusatory posts on this forum were a HUGE turnoff for me (Not naming names...but it's sad that I've only been watching this forum for one month and already can tell who is a hot-head and who seems balanced in their views). They make this forum seem a little more extreme than it is, and perhaps some would do well to consider the affect this will have on lurkers who are trying to open their eyes beyond Watchtower beliefs. well the way I see it, the anger expressed here often resonates with people trapped inside and gives them impetus to leave. One of the WTS' masterstrokes is to implement ways of keeping people quiet, well mannered, obedient and orderly. Here people are given the opportunity to do the opposite, and in so doing work up the courage to carve out a life for themselves. Carving out (I love that phrase) involves all the emotion and ingenuity one can muster and when we see this on display it instills confidence. So when I see phrases like "angry, accusatory posts" I reconfigure them to mean passionate protest. This does not seem to have dampened the board's popularity. We don't come to hear to listen to boring, sleep inducing meetings tdesinged to make us agree with everything that has gone before. We come here to vehemently disagree. But I can see that the vehemence sometimes displayed here would put people off - but like you, they can hold back from posting straight away to get a feel for the tempo.
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Non-evidence reasons why people embrace Evolution.
by hooberus inevolutionists always claim that the reason why they believe in evolution and reject creation is due to "evidence".
they frequently use the opposite term "no evidence" in relation to any type of intelligent design, or creation, (and especially to genesis creation and flood history !).
their advocated beliefs always tend to include whatever is necessary to believe in to intellectually "explain" the existence of the universe, world, and its creatures without needing god).
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Curtains
well said jaguarbuss.
I need a popcorn emoticon - this thread is hotting up
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Non-evidence reasons why people embrace Evolution.
by hooberus inevolutionists always claim that the reason why they believe in evolution and reject creation is due to "evidence".
they frequently use the opposite term "no evidence" in relation to any type of intelligent design, or creation, (and especially to genesis creation and flood history !).
their advocated beliefs always tend to include whatever is necessary to believe in to intellectually "explain" the existence of the universe, world, and its creatures without needing god).
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Curtains
here is another
Non-evidence reason for embracing evolution: It shines a light on nature, filling us with awe and inspiration, giving us ideas way beyond our station in life
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Don't Ignore Us!
by peacefulpete inwhen i first left the jw's some years ago, one of the most incredible observations i made was just how irrelevant the wt and jw's were to the larger public.
when the conversation turned to my history (as it often did, because i desperately wanted to discuss it) the most comon reaction was of complete unawareness of the jw's, much less their doctrine, or complete surprise that i regarded them as destructive.
to the later, the jw's were understood to be just another church like any other, a little weird perhaps but just one of the many churches in town.
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Curtains
yes I agree about the elitism and sectarian bigotry. It was an eye opener to me too that people on the outside thought of Jehovahs wintesses as just another religion. But this made me relax at their normalcy and I stopped feeling like such a freak for having been a witness for so long. However I will always feel attentive to the changes I would like to see happen within the organisation, so I won't ignore them. Good thread peacefulpete - it helps to crystallize whats going on.
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The Catholic Perspective
by sabastious inin another thread, bts quoted this catholic doctrinal paraphrasing of adam and eve:.
http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt1art1p7.shtml#390.
god created man in his image and established him in his friendship.
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Curtains
bohm, in thinking about it, I feel that Mad dawg is making an argument from incredulity and I'd like to ask Mad Dawg whether or not he'd concede that he is. But on the other we could also accuse a strict atheist of doing so. Isn't life complicated.
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Curtains
aguest
while I agree that a belief in evolution does not necessarily imply atheism, I cannot see how atheism cannot equate to a belief in evolution (is there something besides evolution or creation?). there are many alternatives to Darwinian evolution and to creationism that have been proposed over time, some examples (among many) of non creationist alternatives to evolution are
orthogenesis
neo-Lamarkianism
process structuralism
saltationism
Peace to you too
curtains
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Non-evidence reasons why people embrace Evolution.
by hooberus inevolutionists always claim that the reason why they believe in evolution and reject creation is due to "evidence".
they frequently use the opposite term "no evidence" in relation to any type of intelligent design, or creation, (and especially to genesis creation and flood history !).
their advocated beliefs always tend to include whatever is necessary to believe in to intellectually "explain" the existence of the universe, world, and its creatures without needing god).
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Curtains
yeah - great to thrash out this subject
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Curtains
If one wants to have a rational discussion then one must be patient and not demean others.
Another point is to be clear about what terms mean and what their implications are. To do this one has to establish how they are using the term. For example I see that you aguest use evolutionsit to mean different things. You talk about a pure evolutionist - by this do you mean an atheist? I ask because to me evolution is separate from atheism and it is separate from theism. It cannot be used to support either atheism or theism to exclude the other. In other words I have come to the conclusion that evolution is compatible with both atheism and theism. So when I use the term evolution I will be talking about evolution itself and not about theism or atheism.