Mary Renault used to be my favourite author before I became a witness.
Curtains
JoinedPosts by Curtains
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48
Favourite books
by watersprout inwhat are your favourite books?.
do you have a book that inspired you?.
a book that you read over and over again?.
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The Christian Onslaught
by satinka in*sigh* i have been noticing lately there are a number of groups of "christians" signing up as members of this forum, with the obvious agenda of gaining converts for their own cult-like religions.
i have been wondering things like:.
hmmm...maybe i'll try ignoring them.. thank you simon for the space to vent.. satinka.
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Curtains
The point I wish to make is that Jesus said lots of contradictiory things that believers can use to justify cruelties to others including the one about taking up the sword.
But on the other hand in order to unify all of what Jesus and to rationalise contradictory statements one has to divest them of their power. I prefer to let Jesus words contradict so that I can question them and see them as suggesting the powerful problems we have to confront and deal with.
but thanks to tec and psac and myelaine for your thoughts.
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completed my degree this week
by chickpea intook my final final exam to end my course work.
for my aas in complementary and alternative .
medicine, so when all the applications and .
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Curtains
congratulations
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205
The Christian Onslaught
by satinka in*sigh* i have been noticing lately there are a number of groups of "christians" signing up as members of this forum, with the obvious agenda of gaining converts for their own cult-like religions.
i have been wondering things like:.
hmmm...maybe i'll try ignoring them.. thank you simon for the space to vent.. satinka.
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Curtains
tec
Matthew 10:34&35
Yeah, I know what you are talking about. My answer is the same. Do you think that this sword is perhaps the same one that comes out of his mouth in Revelations?
Unless we're thinking he's biting the hilt of a sword and tossing his head around, it means something other than a physical, literal sword.
revelation is a different genre and written at a different time. Jesus was being very direct at Matthew 10:34&35 and there was a lot of partisanship going on at the time. Why would he say something so risky to his disciples if he adamantly intended not to suggest taking up arms to fight for one's side.
edit: my computer time is all gone now for today
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205
The Christian Onslaught
by satinka in*sigh* i have been noticing lately there are a number of groups of "christians" signing up as members of this forum, with the obvious agenda of gaining converts for their own cult-like religions.
i have been wondering things like:.
hmmm...maybe i'll try ignoring them.. thank you simon for the space to vent.. satinka.
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Curtains
okay I take that back psac and tammy.
the fact is psac to me this is not clear at all as you suggest
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers and sisters, o what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
the above sounds more like it is suggesting indifference on God's part rather than love - god makes his sun rise on the evil and the good.
The perfection recommended in the verses above seem to foster a sort of detachment from real life imo. The emotions of love and hate are both healthy emotions - it is what we do with our hate that can result in badness. Furthermore there is much reward in loving those who love you and in hating your enemy. It means that one can break off from an unhealthy relationship and start a fresh. Also if one does not hate where does one find the impetus to act in self preservation or in perservation of those weaker than oneself?
perahps a verses like the above can be contemplated as a remote ideal rather than applicable in real life. Sometimes the ideal may come closer whereas at other times it can seem far off. And as we contemplate we can notice the inherent errors and problems in the applocation of these ideals.
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205
The Christian Onslaught
by satinka in*sigh* i have been noticing lately there are a number of groups of "christians" signing up as members of this forum, with the obvious agenda of gaining converts for their own cult-like religions.
i have been wondering things like:.
hmmm...maybe i'll try ignoring them.. thank you simon for the space to vent.. satinka.
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Curtains
wow hypocrisy from tammy & psac
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205
The Christian Onslaught
by satinka in*sigh* i have been noticing lately there are a number of groups of "christians" signing up as members of this forum, with the obvious agenda of gaining converts for their own cult-like religions.
i have been wondering things like:.
hmmm...maybe i'll try ignoring them.. thank you simon for the space to vent.. satinka.
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Curtains
tec
He preached about rulership and kingdom and gathered together a small army of supporters.
Yes. Not an army in the traditional - go and slaughter them - approach.
Matthew 10:34&35
Christians like to santize his activities but he did say he'd come to divide and conquer.
The sheep from the goats, yes. Those filled with light from those filled with darkness. Those who are seeking God and truth from those who are seeking glory for themselves, yes.
and the goats go into everlasting punishment/destruction. They are not given an opportunity to defend themselves/change. Jesus reveals absolutist coercion - be nice to me and my followers or die
please also see Jesus' attitude to and denunciation of chorazin and bethsaida
Peter was armed (garden of gethsemane)and because they were very obviously outnumbered Jesus told him to put away his weapon.
Jesus commanded Peter, "Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?"
If Jesus was serious he ought to have said get rid of the sword or why did you bring one, instead of saying put it back in its sheath -
I think my reading has as much backing from the gospels as yours has - many christians have thought so. Also the kingdom Jesus spoke of can also be seen in a material earthly way rather than as being heavenly.
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The Christian Onslaught
by satinka in*sigh* i have been noticing lately there are a number of groups of "christians" signing up as members of this forum, with the obvious agenda of gaining converts for their own cult-like religions.
i have been wondering things like:.
hmmm...maybe i'll try ignoring them.. thank you simon for the space to vent.. satinka.
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Curtains
the fact is, terra incognito, the God of the era of the 10 commandments trained his people in the art of double standards. Worse it was alright to pillage, slaughter and abuse others including women and slaves. God cultivated a warrior society as he was a warrior himself.
Jesus was pretty much a revolutionary too. Christians like to santize his activities but he did say he'd come to divide and conquer. He preached about rulership and kingdom and gathered together a small army of supporters. Peter was armed (garden of gethsemane)and because they were very obviously outnumbered Jesus told him to put away his weapon.
BTW Chirst to me is a different from Jesus as Chirst encapsulates ideals that did not find fulfullment in Jesus.
godrulz - it is very obvious what you and your ilk are after - rulership, subjugation and pillage unless of course you indicate that you are aware of the what the God you worship is like and problemitize these aspects of him.
good thread santika. I wish more chrisitans would engage in thoughful argument instead of acting as if they have something we don't. And yes I agree, very often what they say is like propaganda as they tend to exclude all other opinions, and worse, twist what the bible is actually saying in order to appear mild and loving.
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What say you Christians ???
by wobble init seems to me that most, if not all christians are really hung up on sin and redemption from sin and how naturally evil we all are.. my question, and observation is this : i had nothing to do with whatever you say adam and eve did wrong, i have always, throughout my life, treated whoever i came into contact with compassion, respect and love.. i have lived by the golden rule.. not many people, hand on heart, can say that, i can.. so, is your god going to judge me for the "sin" of some mythical forebears of mine ?
is he going to say that , because i did not believe in him, i willl be judged adversely, even though i lived by the precepts he is supposed to support ?.
all i can say is, if your god is like that, i refuse to worship or acknowledge him.. and i certainly do not want to get to know him.
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Curtains
wobble
That means Eternal Cutting Off, there is no middle ground, belivers saved, those who don't go off in to the "lake that burns with fire". I absolutely loathe this God as he seems to encourage hate, vengeance and small mindedness.
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What say you Christians ???
by wobble init seems to me that most, if not all christians are really hung up on sin and redemption from sin and how naturally evil we all are.. my question, and observation is this : i had nothing to do with whatever you say adam and eve did wrong, i have always, throughout my life, treated whoever i came into contact with compassion, respect and love.. i have lived by the golden rule.. not many people, hand on heart, can say that, i can.. so, is your god going to judge me for the "sin" of some mythical forebears of mine ?
is he going to say that , because i did not believe in him, i willl be judged adversely, even though i lived by the precepts he is supposed to support ?.
all i can say is, if your god is like that, i refuse to worship or acknowledge him.. and i certainly do not want to get to know him.
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Curtains
I quite like the ideas about Christ in this thread. When christians say I don't know or I don't know how something factors in - this to me is very much like the christ I used to know. Christ is very attractive if viewed in this way because the inference is that of unchartered, free space and movement
Of course I am not looking to believe in Chirst (as I have passed through him and he has passed through me, I guess)- just seeing similarities with how I like to see lots of space and movement in and around us.
as to your question wobble - imo when Jesus spoke about judgement he was talking about his time and his world and this he was doing to emphasize a new beginning. Also he was speaking in hindsight to enable people to make sense of injustices, defeats and stalemates and still maintain a courageous spirit oriented to the future.