Posts by Curtains

It is my practice, my lord, to refer to you all matters concerning which I am in doubt. For who can better give guidance to my hesitation or inform my ignorance? I have never participated in trials of Christians. I therefore do not know what offenses it is the practice to punish or investigate, and to what extent. And I have been not a little hesitant as to whether there should be any distinction on account of age or no difference between the very young and the more mature; whether pardon is to be granted for repentance, or, if a man has once been a Christian, it does him no good to have ceased to be one; whether the name itself, even without offenses, or only the offenses associated with the name are to be punished.

Meanwhile, in the case of those who were denounced to me as Christians, I have observed the following procedure: I interrogated these as to whether they were Christians; those who confessed I interrogated a second and a third time, threatening them with punishment; those who persisted I ordered executed. For I had no doubt that, whatever the nature of their creed, stubbornness and inflexible obstinacy surely deserve to be punished. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome.

Soon accusations spread, as usually happens, because of the proceedings going on, and several incidents occurred. An anonymous document was published containing the names of many persons. Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ--none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do--these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshipped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ.

They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food. Even this, they affirmed, they had ceased to do after my edict by which, in accordance with your instructions, I had forbidden political associations. Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses. But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition.

I therefore postponed the investigation and hastened to consult you. For the matter seemed to me to warrant consulting you, especially because of the number involved. For many persons of every age, every rank, and also of both sexes are and will be endangered. For the contagion of this superstition has spread not only to the cities but also to the villages and farms. But it seems possible to check and cure it. It is certainly quite clear that the temples, which had been almost deserted, have begun to be frequented, that the established religious rites, long neglected, are being resumed, and that from everywhere sacrificial animals are coming, for which until now very few purchasers could be found. Hence it is easy to imagine what a multitude of people can be reformed if an opportunity for repentance is afforded.

Trajan to Pliny

You observed proper procedure, my dear Pliny, in sifting the cases of those who had been denounced to you as Christians. For it is not possible to lay down any general rule to serve as a kind of fixed standard. They are not to be sought out; if they are denounced and proved guilty, they are to be punished, with this reservation, that whoever denies that he is a Christian and really proves it--that is, by worshiping our gods--even though he was under suspicion in the past, shall obtain pardon through repentance. But anonymously posted accusations ought to have no place in any prosecution. For this is both a dangerous kind of precedent and out of keeping with the spirit of our age.

103

How the WTBTS creates atheists

by Nickolas in

i am an atheist.

i arrived at this juncture in my life despite not wanting to.

when i first met the witnesses at 22 i was a seeker looking for answers to the question of life - in other words, prime cult target material.

Curtains

still thinking you make some great points

I agree that belief came before religion and that belief is worth holding on to. But even before belief there was something else - a sense that there was more and a desire that there was more. these two taken together imo produce belief. Jehovahs witnesses imo are an exaggeration of these 2 activities. I think I retain these even as an atheist but not to an exaggerated level.

82

Should Israel cede Land to Palestine at the pre 1967 markers and recognize Palestinian Statehood.

by designs in

Curtains

chariklo, I watched that program - very enlightening. Yes it is marvellous that we can get involved in political discussions and follow the intricacies of politics without a guilty conscience.

excellent objective points shepherd. Objectivity is not easy to cultivate

82

Should Israel cede Land to Palestine at the pre 1967 markers and recognize Palestinian Statehood.

by designs in

Curtains

I have found that there is corroboration for justitia's findings regarding the 1967 war on ebsco. THis should be open to anyone who has access. Some of the articles are also available generally. I can only imagine that one or two on here, who shall remain nameless, only read propaganda that supports their own particular affiliations .

I also think that it is fairly inevitable that Israel will have to cede.

82

Should Israel cede Land to Palestine at the pre 1967 markers and recognize Palestinian Statehood.

by designs in

Curtains

the two leaders seem very tense on the front page of the newspaper today. Obama certainly took Netanyahu by surprise and I hope he sticks to his guns (non literally that is) as I think yes - Israel should cede land to Palestine at the pre 1967 markers.

66

Men are Adorable!

by Robdar in

jw
friends

this afternoon i had the pleasure of listening to my dad, husband and son discuss timing belts, the teeth they rest on, camshafts, and other car parts that i cant recall at such a late hour.

they were totally engrossed in the conversation and it was fun listening to them talk.

the air was thick with testosterone and they were so manly that i just had to smile about it.

Curtains

I feel for you and your mum Faundy.